Re: EDU Distro - was Re: [seul-edu] Linux in Elementry

[Ben Armstrong <synrg@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca>]

On Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 09:17:08AM -0700, Samuel Hart wrote:
> Actually, I personally think a whole distro should be made, instead of simply 
> overlaying an existing one. The biggest problem (IMHO) with existing distros 
> is that they come with far too many server items that the average school 
> would never need. Does each desktop /need/ a web-server? Do they need an FTP 
> server? etc. etc. Anything extra that is added like this, increases the 
> maintenance and security concerns (and that's something we /dont/ want)

Eh?  Baffling.  Have you ever looked at a Debian install?  You are
presented with "tasksel", an interface for picking what you want to
install.  By default, *nothing* is selected.  Don't want a web server?
Don't ask for it.

An education option could be provided, just as I have done for Debian
Jr.  If you want it on your system, you just need to mark that checkbox
in tasksel.  That's all there is to it.

> Plus, if a distro was made with schools in mind, the installation process 
> could be tailored to be as easy and straight-forward as possible to those 
> working in the school (Progeny, RH, MD, SuSE, these all have relatively easy 
> installs, but there are too many options that the averge educator would not 
> understand and would confuse them [options such as "do you want shadow 
> passwords?", "do you want to make a user now?", "what file system do you want 
> to use?' etc. etc.]). Also, we can't assume that they will have a 
> computer-literate person working on installing the software (even if they are 
> supposed to be the tech support ;-) so it needs to be as simple as possible.

I agree, and debconf is designed to be usable in that fashion: prime it
with the variables you want to "pre-answer" and then let 'er rip.

> One of the things I have been thinking about (and that we plan on doing in 
> Tux4Kids) is there needs to be multiple distros, each geared specifically for 
> different needs and different skill-sets.
> 
> There would be one for the average school desktop machine, one for 
> administrative systems, etc.

Ugh.  Far better to put the effort into making your chosen distro easily
"sub-settable" as Debian already is.  Naturally, you know where my bias
is, but the principle I have been promoting is not so much that you
should go with Debian as it is that you should leverage off of existing
work done by others and, if necessary, join them and improve their
offerings rather than forming yet-another-splinter-distro which will
probably come and go and eventually end up leaving its users in the
lurch because its original creators have long since gone on to pursue
other interests.

> As a matter of fact, as a QND stop-gap solution, one could even make an 
> installationless distro (a Linux system on bootable CD) that contains lots of 
> different edu software applications and is easy to use (you just pop in the 
> CD, and reboot ;-)

Assuming the system's hardware/BIOS allows booting off a CD.  OK, so I
guess if you have this problem, you could do a CD-plus-floppy.  But
again, why not do this with an existing distro?  It will be a whole lot
easier to install and maintain the "master" and keep it up-to-date with,
say, the latest security fixes if you use someone else's distro rather
than trying to handle all those grotty details yourself.

> We at Tux4Kids actually have a /very early/ prototype of just such a distro, 
> you can see screenshots of it here:
> http://www.geekcomix.com/snh/o/m/e/g/a/01-02-16/shots.html
> http://www.geekcomix.com/snh/o/m/e/g/a/01-02-19/shots.html

Not bad looking.  Uncluttered, simple menus (although I really wonder
what "productivity" is going to mean to children :)  Further along in
the UI department than Debian Jr. is going to be for Woody.

> (Note, this project is currently on hold... We are waiting to see what can 
> happen both from some of the other EDU software we're working on, as well as 
> other kid-based distros, such as DebianJr ;-)

Debian Jr. is not a distro.  It's an installation option for Debian. :)
Debian is a general use multi-user operating system.  As such, it is
necessary to consider that parents and children alike will be sharing
these systems.  I cannot assume that I have complete control over what
gets installed where.  As such, there is not yet much "information
hiding", e.g. removal of entries from the menus that are unlikely to be
of interest to children.  But I don't feel this is a major shortcoming.
In fact, I sort of like that the children can explore, try "grownup"
things, and maybe even break them.  Keeps me on my toes at least. :)
Helps me to shake any preconceptions I may have about what is "kid
stuff" and what isn't on a Linux system.

Ben
-- 
    nSLUG       http://www.nslug.ns.ca      synrg@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca
    Debian      http://www.debian.org       synrg@debian.org
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