Re: EDU Distro - was Re: [seul-edu] Linux in Elementry

[Samuel Hart <criswell@geekcomix.com>]

On Thursday 23 August 2001  9:51am, Ben Armstrong wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 09:17:08AM -0700, Samuel Hart wrote:
> > Actually, I personally think a whole distro should be made, instead of
> > simply overlaying an existing one. The biggest problem (IMHO) with
> > existing distros is that they come with far too many server items that
> > the average school would never need.
<snip>
>
> Eh?  Baffling.  Have you ever looked at a Debian install?  You are
> presented with "tasksel", an interface for picking what you want to
> install.  By default, *nothing* is selected.  Don't want a web server?
> Don't ask for it.
>
> An education option could be provided, just as I have done for Debian
> Jr.  If you want it on your system, you just need to mark that checkbox
> in tasksel.  That's all there is to it.

Actually.... Debian Jr. is one project we are watching attentively. ;-)

From a personal and technical standpoint, I would make any Linux EDU distro I 
was in charge of Debian-based.

> I agree, and debconf is designed to be usable in that fashion: prime it
> with the variables you want to "pre-answer" and then let 'er rip.

Right, but debconf, in and of itself, is still far too complicated for the 
average educator to use.

And that's the key... we need to not gear these things (even in the 
slightest) towards anyone with any technical skill. In my wife's district, 
even the supposed computer speciallists are rather naive with respect to 
computers. The installation and maintenance needs to be as simple as possible 
(actually, two distros, Progeny and Mandrake make great strides in this area, 
IMHO).

> > One of the things I have been thinking about (and that we plan on doing
> > in Tux4Kids) is there needs to be multiple distros, each geared
> > specifically for different needs and different skill-sets.
> >
> > There would be one for the average school desktop machine, one for
> > administrative systems, etc.
>
> Ugh.  Far better to put the effort into making your chosen distro easily
> "sub-settable" as Debian already is.

Naturally, from a technical perspective yes.

But in practicality, the people in the schools who would be installing and 
using this software will not have the knowlegde  to activate/deactivate 
these. So, for them, a choice in pre-set distros should be available.

> > As a matter of fact, as a QND stop-gap solution, one could even make an
> > installationless distro (a Linux system on bootable CD) that contains
> > lots of different edu software applications and is easy to use (you just
> > pop in the CD, and reboot ;-)
>
> Assuming the system's hardware/BIOS allows booting off a CD.  OK, so I
> guess if you have this problem, you could do a CD-plus-floppy.  But
> again, why not do this with an existing distro?  It will be a whole lot
> easier to install and maintain the "master" and keep it up-to-date with,
> say, the latest security fixes if you use someone else's distro rather
> than trying to handle all those grotty details yourself.

You're confusing semantics here.

I never said make a whole new distro *from scratch*. I just said we shouldn't 
take an existing distro and add layers upon it (such as requiring them to 
install a RH/Debian/SuSE/etc. distro, and then apply a layer of educational 
RPMs/DEBs to it.).

What we (Tux4Kids) want to do is supply schools & educators a Linux distro 
(probably based upon and compatible with Debian, since maintenance can be 
easily automated) which will take all the choices that the end-user probably 
wont know how to answer already decided for them.

If you offer the schools a choice of distros they can use (each tailored 
towards specific needs), then it can make entrance into the schools that much 
simpler.

A standard installation distro would be for those schools who have staff 
skilled enough to handle the install.

A bootable CD-ROM distro, while not offering the same functionality (sound 
would be /very/ tricky, and for maximum compatibility, you must use the SVGA 
sever, which usually runs slower for the hardware), can be a very QND 
(Quick-N-Dirty) solution for schools who don't have sufficiently skilled 
staff.

> > We at Tux4Kids actually have a /very early/ prototype of just such a
> > distro, you can see screenshots of it here:
> > http://www.geekcomix.com/snh/o/m/e/g/a/01-02-16/shots.html
> > http://www.geekcomix.com/snh/o/m/e/g/a/01-02-19/shots.html
>
> Not bad looking.  Uncluttered, simple menus (although I really wonder
> what "productivity" is going to mean to children :)  Further along in
> the UI department than Debian Jr. is going to be for Woody.

Actually, this thing was originally based upon Peanut Linux. The WM is IceWM, 
and we did make our own custom menus for it. Future incarnations of this will 
likely be Debian Jr.-based.

If anyone would like to see the prototype, they can contact me (off list) and 
send me a blank CD to get a copy (right now, we have no way of distributing 
ISOs online... besides, it's such an early prototype, it has no real use to 
anyone besides other developers and tinkerers ;-)

> Debian Jr. is not a distro.  It's an installation option for Debian. :)

Again, semantics.

A CD shipped with a GUI installer hiding the fact that underneath it holds 
entirely Debian Jr. packages (and with this option pre-set) is the sort of 
distro I am talking about.

-- 
Sam "Criswell" Hart <criswell@geekcomix.com> AIM, Yahoo!: <criswell4069>
Homepage: < http://www.geekcomix.com/snh/ >
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