on Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 08:19:00AM -0500, Doug Loss (drloss@suscom.net) wrote:
Dennis Daniels wrote:
Is anybody out there familiar with Knoppix? I really see more of a life
when the installation/testing of apps is as easy as loading a CD... it
sounds like DebianEdu and SEUL/ISO could really benefit by embracing a
packaging structure like Knoppix...
Lots of us are familiar with it. I can't speak for DebianEdu,
but for the SEUL/edu ISO we don't really want a bootable CD.
Doug, before dismissing this out of hand, consider:
- A demo disk which can be inserted and run on any system is a very
compelling marketing tool. It cuts through a ton of myths and FUD
regarding GNU/Linux very compellingly: too hard to install, no GUI,
no apps, too hard to configure networking/sound/video, difficult
interface. Not bad for a 60 second demo.
- Knoppix currently includes an option to install to disk. This is
not as streamlined as it could be at the moment, but the system is
really a very versatile swiss army knife: demo, mobile workstation,
installer, diagnostic tool.
- As an installed-base extender, Knoppix is essentially a
system-in-your-pocket. A computer lab can be extended with
literally any old system + a Knoppix disk. This is a compelling
administrative advantage.
For one thing, that would limit us to the apps that could be jammed
onto a single CD after the OS takes its cut, and I think we'll have
too many apps for that to work.
The compressed loopback filesystem means that 700 MiB provides nearly 2
GiB of storage. You'll find that you can pack a pretty comprehensive
set of starter apps (considering the disk as a base config rather than a
total solution). Switching to DVD-ROM would provide ~2 GiB storage, or
~5 GiB compressed capacity. A kitchen-sink RH 7.3 install runs around
3.4 GiB, SuSE's rumored to weigh in at 8 GiB (I don't know what's in
there). Knoppix's foundations on Debian means that adding additional
packages to the system post-installation is trivial.
Many software packages are surprisingly small. Once your base system is
installed, there's an aweful lot that can be squeezed into a restricted
space. Noteable exceptions: Perl, emacs, TeTeX, OpenOffice.org. Not
all of which need be installed on an educational system.
Knoppix is also configurable, and different images can be constructed
fairly trivially, allowing tuned custom images to be produced for
specific needs.
For another, we're positioning this as an addition to an existing
Linux installation rather than a stand-alone product; that way, any
distro manufacturer can take our ISO and combine it with his distro to
make an educational specialty distro.
Knoppix's Debian foundations move you from full distro compatibility.
But you buy a lot in the process. If the core seul-edu product is
merely a package list, then a Knoppix-like bootable disk can be seen as
one instanciation or delivery mechanism for this list (or subset
thereof). Again, Debian's package management + the Knoppix
infrastructure for building bootable systems makes cutting new versions
of the bootable disk trivial, given a list of target packages.
I think that will give us more capacity for getting into the schools
(the ubiquity of the product) than a separate bootable CD would.
Having said all that, I think the Knoppix and Freeduc methods are
emminently worth pursuing. It's just that we're looking at a slightly
different path to a similar goal.
Give it some thought.
Peace.