Re: [seul-edu] LWN: PTS News & DebianEdu's future

["Karsten M. Self" <kmself@ix.netcom.com>]

on Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 03:56:46PM -0700, Cameron Miller (cdmiller@adams.edu) wrote:
> Karsten M. Self wrote:
> >on Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 08:19:00AM -0500, Doug Loss (drloss@suscom.net) 
> >wrote:

> >>Dennis Daniels wrote:
> >>
> >>>Is anybody out there familiar with Knoppix? I really see more of a life 
> >>>when the installation/testing of apps is as easy as loading a CD... it 
> >>>sounds like DebianEdu and SEUL/ISO could really benefit by embracing a 
> >>>packaging structure like Knoppix...
> >>>
> >
> >>Lots of us are familiar with it.  I can't speak for DebianEdu, 
> >>but for the SEUL/edu ISO we don't really want a bootable CD.  

<...>

> >The compressed loopback filesystem means that 700 MiB provides nearly
> >2 GiB of storage.  You'll find that you can pack a pretty
> >comprehensive set of starter apps (considering the disk as a base
> >config rather than a total solution).  Switching to DVD-ROM would
> >provide ~2 GiB storage, or ~5 GiB compressed capacity.  A
> >kitchen-sink RH 7.3 install runs around 3.4 GiB, SuSE's rumored to
> >weigh in at 8 GiB (I don't know what's in there).  Knoppix's
> >foundations on Debian means that adding additional packages to the
> >system post-installation is trivial.

> Well, since the RPM's and DEB's are already compressed, the compressed
> loopback filesystem does not provide a storage advantage to the
> SEUL/ISO.

I still haven't seen a quantification of how much (compressed or
otherwise) space we're talking about.  Point is, the bootable disk
concept delivers roughly the _same_ package payload as a distribution
disk but in a ready-to-run format.

To cut the phallus comparison whinge contest short:  could someone point
me to a comprehensive list of currently identified projects, preferably
in either an RPM or DEB compatible naming format?  Based on the
'Application Categories' list at http://richtech.ca/seul/ , I see 556
packages.  If the typical package is 5 MiB (this is actually a bit large
for Linux, the 658 packages on my system total 450 MiB in packaged
format, or about 700 KiB each), that's 2.5 GiB packages total (in
packaged format).  Assuming overhead of 100 MiB for Knoppix OS, a
selection of about 1/3 of the packages could be packed onto a live disk.

Note these are SWAG estimates -- if the package size is more typical of
GNU/Linux, there should be plenty of room for all of seul-edu with room
to spare.  The numbers could be dialed in with hard data, if anyone
cares to provide it.

> I for one, would like to see the SEUL/ISO with it's packages, so I can
> pick and choose apps from it to construct a custom booting demo cd
> which might be optimized for the local hardware.  Other folks are able
> to create their own demo cd's from this as well using whichever distro
> they like.

You're assuming a replacement of a comprehensive SEUL ISO.  That's not
my suggestion, I'd appreciate your not presenting it as such.

You're also describing an end-result that is extremely similar to what
I'm proposing as a Knoppix-based solution:  a customized disk with
packages of your selection, which will boot on a wide range of hardware,
and which is a suitable base for either a demo product _or_ an
installation disk.

Again:  listing packages in a format suitable for use with *either*
apt-get (DEB format) or RPM package managers would allow the user to
select and install packages with the ease you're describing.

Peace.

-- 
Karsten M. Self <kmself@ix.netcom.com>        http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
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