Re: [seul-edu] XML and my project

[rnd@sampo.karelia.ru]

On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, Doug Loss wrote:

>rnd@sampo.karelia.ru wrote:
>> 
>I don't know if it will meet your needs exactly, but take a look at
>XDBM:

><http://www.bowerbird.com.au/XDBM/>

Yes, I shall look at that. Last weekend I was downloading  lots
of information on XML and related topics, and no I am  slightly
overhelmed how much things are there.  It  is  not  yet  in  an
appropriate order in my head, because it seems that  all  these
things are rotating around some very simple axes.  So,  I  need
some time "sort everything by shelves".

>It may be what you're looking for.

On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, Bruno Vernier wrote:

>On Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 12:53:27PM +0300, rnd@sampo.karelia.ru wrote:

>> So, to boil it down, the question is:
>> 
>> - what  do  I  need  to  make  a  relational  database  from  a
>> collection of XML files? 
>> (I already know how to use XQL to  make  queries  in  a  single
>> file, but if there are several files and I need relations?)
>
>I've used xmlscript (free but not open source) at the shell level to do these
>conversions, http://www.xmlscript.org

Well, in fact I was hoping for some tool which doesn't  convert
xml-files into dome relational db format,  but  treat  them  as
relational db does: for example, could make  SQL  queries  into
set of xml "tables"...

(The amount of data is not so large  to  use  special  database
techniques: modest 10 thousands of records, at most :-)

>.. and now use zope (www.zope.org) web application server which
>already has modules for connecting to SQL databases and XML files.  A year
>ago, I introduced the idea of XML in education on this list, and now I would

Yes, XML is great. The only problem is that in the articles
which explain XML appear a lot of other cryptic abbreviations,
like DOM, SAX, XSL, ... this increases a dizziness in my head :-)

>like to introduce the idea of web-application servers for education: and
>zope is the most advanced open-source web application server available now.
>Compare with non open-source: vignette, cold-fusion, frontier (userland).

Yes, I shall look.

>A zope server can handle multiple simultaneous database connections AND xml
>file parsing... all in a very visual object oriented fashion... making
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                          Personally I prefer the word "visual"
as in "vi" :-) But users must see another picture, of course.

>maintaining a project such as yours a joy especially in the
>long run.  I use postgresql for the SQL database, tinyTables for small
>databases, and XML files... and the whole zope server data is stored as a
>single database as well (which makes it feel fast).

Hmmm... But IS it fast?

I have tried a WWWdb thing (Postgresql->web)  (version  1.0  or
was it 0.1?) was so slow (on a i486) that  I  decided  to  look
elsewhere.

>> I remember, there were such talks in seul-edu  some  time  ago.
>> Things change rapidly, so if somebody knows a prooved answer  -
>> please, let me know. Thanks!
>
>I am building the proof right now.  My work in progress is on:

OK. I shall look. Thank you.

>I am slowed down by the sheer volume of cool features coming out these 
>days from the zope community. http://www.zope.org  

That is the "problem" of Open Source these days: so many interesting
things!

>Bruno

Thank you, Doug and Bruno!

My boss has just  returned  from  the  meeting  on  which  they
discussed what I have discribed in my letter  to  seul-edu.  It
seems their working group is very right: it's content which  is
important to circulate inside education management  network  in
the first place.

(However, in my opinion if a content is a pile of  goodies,  it
will remind a trash, not something useful. That is why XML seem
more important: at least to categorise goodies :-) )

I   also   plan   to   release   very-very   simple   XML-based
quiz-generator  by  the  end  of  this  year  (with  qzb-ml  ->
html/cgi,  ->  paper/latex,  and   -->   HyperCard   2.2,   and
text->qzb-ml  convertors)  just  in  case  somebody   will   be
interested.

However, I find it boring to write valid XML yet (that is, DTD
for "qzb-ml). So I let it be just what it will be.

*

Hint for those who want to learn XML: I understood it only when
I learned about XQL. Before that XML was  just  a  yet  another
'pile of tags'.

Do you agree?


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
--
Russia * Karelia * Petrozavodsk * rnd@rsuzi.pgu.karelia.ru
* Monday, November 15, 1999 * Powered by Linux RedHat 6.0
* "Memory is a thing we forget with."