SEUL: Re: SEUL packaging, etc.

[Fredrick Paul Eisele <feisele@ameritech.net>]

> I would like to make it almost trivial for a user to install a 
> package, i.e. click in a hypertext help/wizard window and it 
> will install what is required for functionality set "X".

Some time ago I made a suggestion that was only slightly 
commented on (as I have been rather busy I have not followed up)
that I believe addresses this issue.

Problem #0:
  Installation is too hard.  I have to type in all kinds of
installation parameters.

Solution #1:
  Make a graphical interface, everybody knows picking is 
much better than typing.
[Is this the essence of what Erik is proposing?]

Problem #1: (Problem with Solution #1)
   Installation is hard, I have to enter in all kinds of
installation parameters and I can't just enter them and let
the installation proceed on its own, I have to shepherd it all
the way.

Solution #2:
  Make better use of the multi-stage select/install/configure.
Cause all the information required to install to be obtained
during the select phase.  Separate the configure into two phases
one to collect the configuration information and the second to
actually perform the configure (Could this information be
obtained during the select as well).

Problem #2: 
  Installation requires me to have a significant amount of 
insight into the workings of each package that I have to install.
I want this ability for the packages that I am particularly 
interested in but for the bulk of the packages I really don't 
care.  In fact what I really want is to have an installation
like (for example) Bud (basic user/developer).  

Solution #3: 
  Add in a second level install program which provides 
a GUI and has all the "standard" selections already entered.  
If I want something different then I can simply pick 
different options.  [Is this the essence of dselect, diety et al?]

Problem #4:
  But, what if there are multiple standard selections that 
cross multiple packages, then I have to hard code them into the
second level install program.  This will make for the 
baulkanization of install packages.  [Is this the cause for
SEUL project?]  What I really want is to make it possible for
me to manage MY configuration and to be able to share MY
configuration with other like minded people, i.e. people 
acting in the same "role".  This is the arguement against the
Debian distribution, debian is for "bit-heads", "hackers", 
"nerds", ... and not for "normal", "typical",... people like ME.

Solution #4:
  Extend the first level install programs to comprehend 
package recursion.  Extend the current package to allow the
inclusion of other packages.  These new collection packages 
have options which override the default parameters 
of constituent packages. Ultimately, the specific 
system administator should have the ability to generate 
a collection package consisting of their own selected set 
of packages.  This would allow for the sharing of system 
configurations.

Problem #5:
  This could/would lead to a explosion of packages which 
add no real functionality to the distribution.  People would
start arguing over what was the best way to organize the 
package hierarchy.  Also, the atomic packages (those that
do not include other packages) would be more prone to failure?

Solution #5:
  Is this a problem?

----------------------------

Finally, it is possible that all this discussion has already
gone on in the development of Deity and others.  If so, sorry
for consuming valuable band width,  if not, I would like to
see some discussion on this thread.

In particular I would like to see some discussion of the the 
different "roles" which "typical" linux users may play.

Fred

"There are two kinds of people; those who divide people
into two groups, and those who don't." -- unknown