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Re: SEUL: Observatons

   From: Dan Stromberg <strombrg@hydra.acs.uci.edu>
   X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m)

   Micah Yoder wrote:
   > jfm2@club-internet.fr wrote:
   > >
   > > I disagree. The fact is than the VGA server will run with *almost* any
   > > card.  But not all.
   > > There are PCs with NVidia Cards (correct me if I am wrong but that is
   > > a modern card) that won't run with the VGA server.  They will run with
   > > their specific server however.
   > > And there are other cards where the VGA server will only support 320x200.
   > [snip]
   > >
   > > Also 8 meg machines will have a hard time with an X based install.
   > OK, points taken.  Curses it is!

   We should be doing an X-based install.

   X'll cover very nearly everything now.  You find VGA-capable machines in
   the dumpster now.  Literally.

Before XFree 3.3 the best seller Matrox Mystique was only capable of
320x200 with the VGA server.  It is difficult to do anything decent
with that.  Also the process of configuring X is tricky and we should
not be forced to rely on it.  But perhaps that could be solved with a
two phase config: in the install phase with ask the user the minimum
ans install the SPECIFIC server (not VGA) with the 640x480 resolution
and low refresh rates who is granted to not fry the monitor and we use
that during install.  Then when installation is complete we can make a
complete config of X (the user has now Linux installed so it is not
dependent on X working so he is less prone to lose his nerves and do
stupid things or just abandon hope) and if it works we configure Linux
for booting to XDM, if it does not work then Linux will boot in text

   You'd be amazed the number of users who won't take curses seriously.
   Over the weekend, one of my housemates said "unix is just like dos,
   right?"  He also talked about "just using telenet" in disparaging
   tones.  (As tho unix is only capable of telnet sessions, because that's
   all he can get from windows without installing more software)

It is just for installation than we would use curses, my goal is than
when rebooting the user will log to XDM.  I am not against an X
install but I do not want we try to develop one until we have a curses
install as a backup solution.

   There are plenty of non-X-based installs around.  We don't need another.

RedHat 2 used an X install.  They reverted to curses.  In part due to
the difficulty of mantaining the X install along the curses based one
they used for backup solution.  In part because at that time most
people had 8 Megs machines who paginated for hours with the X install.

   With seul, people should be configuring their video system at some point
   - that point should be early in the install.  Getting your video system
   working should be considered make-or-break for running a user-friendly

No.  If you try making a full blown X config with high resolutions and
refresh rates chances are that something will not work so the user
will not be able to install anything.  If you want an X config then:
ask the user what brand is his card, what keyboard he is using and
what mouse (or use mouseonfig to detect it) then install the specific
server and start it at 640x480 with no hardware panning (it confuses

			Jean Francois Martinez

==================== The Linux.  Use the Linux, Luke! =======================

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