Re: [tor-relays] Subpoena received

[Thomas White <thomaswhite@xxxxxxxxxx>]

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If you don't plan on visiting the US anytime soon, you may do what I
do. I remind them where on the map they are, where on the map I am,
where their borders are and an illustration of where they can shove it.

It's certainly a point my tactics are crude and may anger some people,
but to put it bluntly I am really irritated that they would knowingly
send such a thing to a foreign establishment. Nothing screams a self
of ownership of the internet like the wording on those documents and
when they change it from a demand to a request I may reconsider my own
wording - but until then I reserve my own right to conjure up insults
for their insult against me.

T

On 20/04/2015 19:54, Dave Warren wrote:
> On 2015-04-20 10:31, Speak Freely wrote:
>> A foreign sovereign can command anything to anyone... without a 
>> reasonable expectation that anyone will follow it.
>> 
>> Even in Canada, I am not obliged to respond to American subpoenas
>> unless and until my government commands me to. Only your
>> sovereign can command you to do anything. A foreign sovereign has
>> zero right to anything outside of it's own purview.
> 
> Keep in mind that if you do respond at all, the US court may claim
> to have waived jurisdictional arguments and consented to the
> jurisdiction, in which case a court order can be enforced
> cross-jurisdictionally in certain cases. Spamhaus learned the hard
> way when they hired a US lawyer to represent them and that lawyer
> responded incorrectly and enabled the lawsuit to become binding
> upon themselves despite the lack of physical presence within the
> US.
> 
> While they ultimately prevailed on their appeal to the greatest
> degree still available, they were unable to vacate the default
> judgement entirely (only the amount), so while they ended up paying
> a nominal amount and winning for more useful purposes, they
> technically lost the case. Had they failed to appeal or lost the
> appeal, the resulting order would have been binding and enforceable
> in UK courts because Spamhaus's actions consented to the
> plaintiff's choice of jurisdiction.
> 
> On the criminal side, you can also be extradited in certain cases.
> Kim Dotcom is still working through the complexities of this
> particular situation.
> 
> So I would highly recommend engaging a lawyer to verify that your 
> actions don't waive any arguments or otherwise consent to anything
> that can be enforced across borders.
> 
> (And no, odds of any of this impacting a simple Tor operator are
> not very high unless you're otherwise a high profile or high value
> target)
> 

- -- 
Activist, anarchist and a bit of a dreamer.
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