Re: [tor-talk] Historically speaking, what was the U.S. navy /military

[Paul Syverson <paul.syverson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Mon, Aug 03, 2015 at 03:58:59PM +0800, Virgil Griffith wrote:
> >         You did that on purpose, right? You obviously knew the kind of
> >         answers your question would generate.
> 
> I was hoping for responses like those from Dr. Syverson.  I was not
> interested in debating the ethics or justification---simply what the
> original funders were looking for / wishing to fund.
> 
> To summarize, the answer I got was: There was no explicit problem to
> be solved, 

There _were_ explicit problems, but nobody approached us with them or
with requirements that they said needed a new technology. We came up
with some specific problems we thought might be useful to solve and a
technology that addressed them. These co-evolved, and I can't say
which is the chicken and which is the egg. We also tried to design in
an open-ended and modular way in expectation of other applications
that we had not yet thought of or evolutions of existing applications.
And this was as much or more about anticipation than about the
communication environment that existed at the time, which is the
reason I mentioned the pizza channel (since I don't think anybody was
offering a way to order food over the Web in 1995).

> we just had this cool research idea and ONR was cool with
> funding us to study it.  However, when we discussed the motivations
> with managers we talked about mitigating leaks from things like "The
> Pizza Channel" or enabling field-agents to covertly phone home.

Well not just managers. In papers, conference presentations, etc.
basically to anyone that we were trying to tell about onion routing
and what it had the potential to do.

aloha,
Paul

> 
> -V
> 
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 3:50 PM, Juan <juan.g71@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 14:41:18 +0800
> > Virgil Griffith <i@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> I delegate this thread to tor-opentalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> >         By the way, you started this thread here and now you want to
> >         move it somewhere else?
> >
> >         You did that on purpose, right? You obviously knew the kind of
> >         answers your question would generate.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 1:05 PM, Juan <juan.g71@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> > On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 07:16:43 +0300
> >> > Cari Machet <carimachet@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> https://youtu.be/qXajND7BQzk?t=27m40s
> >> >>
> >> >> here is on camera explanation of why the navy wants you to use
> >> >> tor ... if YOU dont it wont work
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >         Bingo.
> >> >
> >> >         If only the criminals from the americunt military and other
> >> >         branches of government used some kind of 'secret' network,
> >> > it wouldn't be secret at all. So they (have to) use other users as
> >> >         cover. Sick - like everything the US government does.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> syverson - the way it is portrayed here - worked at the naval lab
> >> >> and developed the idea there
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > --
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