Re: [tor-talk] Tor -> VPN Clarification

[Mirimir <mirimir@xxxxxxxxxx>]

On 02/02/2015 03:06 AM, Bill Berry wrote:
>> As I recall, nobody in this thread has actually opined that "VPN -> Tor"
>> is "definitely not good". People have quoted Grugq to that effect, from
>> a 2012 presentation. But nobody here has made an argument for it.
> 
> I think leeroy presented some compelling reasons why in his case 1
> (easier to do correlation attacks on VPN over Tor etc)

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant that nobody here has made an argument
that "VPN -> Tor" is "definitely not good". I agree that leeroy seems to
favor Case 2 aka "Using a VPN to connect to Tor".[0]

[0]
https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2015-February/036687.html

> On 02/02/15 00:15, Mirimir wrote:
>> On 02/01/2015 03:46 PM, Joe Btfsplk wrote:
>>> On 2/1/2015 3:51 PM, l.m wrote:
>>>> Now I'm not saying either is better [Case 1, Tor connect to a VPN;
>>>> Case 2, VPN connect to Tor]
>>>> but I prefer the one with more variables in my favor.
>>>>
>>>> --leeroy
>>> Thanks.  I read Case 1 & 2 - couple times (need a few more).
>>> I gather the one with "more variables in my favor" is Case 2 - Using VPN
>>> to connect to Tor?
>>> That is the one (some) have said is definitely not good - yes? Still
>>> others may have said that VPN  connecting to Tor, isn't as bad as some
>>> have indicated?
>> As I recall, nobody in this thread has actually opined that "VPN -> Tor"
>> is "definitely not good". People have quoted Grugq to that effect, from
>> a 2012 presentation. But nobody here has made an argument for it.
>>
>>> Observation:  There are a LOT of assumptions about VPNs & adversaries.
>>> And they may / could be true.  Just sayin'.
>>> The scenarios you describe, would almost seem to say (equivalent of):
>>> "Either of these is *full* of pitfalls, but since I'm gonna die if I
>>> don't do something, I can pick one (then pray)."
>> That is insane! Look, maybe I'm a raving lunatic. Fine, ignore me.
>> Except this bit: For the love of grod, listen to Paul Syverson.[0]
>>
>>> Reason I ask (about using Tor & *anything* else), is I need to do some
>>> legitimate, online research.
>>> Not political / terrorist issues, etc., nor anything socially taboo.
>>> But still something I don't want anyone looking over my shoulder.
>>>
>>> And I'm not sure if using TBB by itself (in Windows) is "good enough."
>> It's not. Use Whonix, or better yet, Qubes with the Whonix-team mods.
>>
>> [0]
>> https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2015-January/036644.html
>>
> 
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