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Re: [school-discuss] MySQL in classroom


Thanks for the education.  As I intimated, I knew none of this previously.
I am aware of the efforts of the dark side to undermine open source in
general.  However, you have to admit that you are angry about this, and
absent the expanation you just provided, I could only react to the tone.
Point taken.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Adelstein" <tadelste@charter.net>
To: <schoolforge-discuss@schoolforge.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [school-discuss] MySQL in classroom

> On Sun, 2004-08-22 at 02:48, Jeff Goodwin wrote:
> > Regarding the response of Tom Adelstein to Robert Rittenhouse:
> >
> > I am just a list recipient of considerably less expertise than either of
> > and probably most people reading this.  I have no opinion about the
> > merits of MySQL.
> >
> > But I am a literate, interested person and I do take offense at the tone
> > Mr Adelstein.  I said the tone, not whatever the merits (or not) of his
> > content.  Mr Adelstein, what on earth justifies your hostility?  Dr
> > Rittenhouse merely expressed an opinion.  If that opinion as it was
> > published here suffers from anything, it suffers from not explaining
> > Rittenhouse finds lacking in MySQL.  If you disagree with his rather
> > reference, then factually refute it rather than belittling the author
> > his University.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Jeff Goodwin
> Jeff,
> I didn't experience much hostility over here, but if that's how you see
> it, then I should take responsibility for it coming across that way.
> For several years now, members of the open source community have
> operated in camps. We had some interesting wars between the Gnome and
> KDE advocates, Debian and everyone else especially Red Hat and so on. We
> even had a Debian advocate file a law suit against what is now Xandros
> because he didn't want them commercializing it.
> The latest war has to do with PostgreSQL and MySQL with the postgres
> advocates cutting down MySQL anytime they see it mentioned.
> One of the key figures of OSDL refused to support a major education
> initiative that would have brought $20 million in funds to schools for
> open source grants. He demanded that the project abandon MySQL and use
> postgreSQL. He also wanted us to alter the meaning of LAMP to mean Linux
> Apache Middleware and Programming. Otherwise, no support. Imagine such
> ideology cutting the legs out from under a program already appropriated
> by Congress.
> If you have any familiarity with the effort and money it requires to get
> any software through a Common Criteria Certification or a FIPS 140
> validation - you would understand how off handed, thoughtless comments
> like the one I saw today from a person who parades his authority around
> might hurt the efforts.
> At the moment, we have no money or effort behind any certifications or
> validations for postgreSQL and yet we have generous contributions from
> MySQL.
> Having lived through enough flame wars as an advocate of open-source
> efforts, I have seen thoughtless comments destroy too many initiaitves.
> I work long hours and very hard and so does my team.  I've watched
> academicians undermine too many initiatives. So, my feeling is, if you
> aren't going to help get out of the way.
> I know this is a prevalent attitude that others share, even members of
> academia.
> So while you wonder what on earth justifies what you perceived as
> hostility, consider this: We have a LAMP Emergency Response Program
> that's been in operation  in the Dallas FBI office since May 2001. It
> handle issues on 9/11 and during the space shuttle disaster. I can put
> personnel and asset to work in seconds not hours.
> It should have been operational in Florida last week. Secretary Ridge
> has given the program his blessing, publicly. And yet, internal politics
> keeps it from being deployed throughout the country. Right now, it's in
> pilot in Seattle, Indianapolis and Atlanta. And internal politics have
> slowed it's deployment to a crawl. Do you expect anyone in the media to
> draw attention to this?
> In a few months, your life might be in danger and yet we have the
> technology to respond rapidly and bureauracy is keeping it slowed down.
> Now this is an application that can save lives, handles information
> sharing and uses the Common Alert Protocol. It implements many
> recommendations of the 9/11 commission report. It uses MySQL and scales
> almost infinitely. It's been in operation for three years. It works.
> We don't need people dissing MySQL and if the postgreSQL people want to
> mouth off, I'm going to say on my watch, "cut it out".
> I hope that explains it.