Re: gEDA-user: Database on symbols, footprints and other (was "Re: gattrib")

["Windell H. Oskay" <windell@xxxxxxxxx>]

On May 6, 2010, at 6:07 PM, John Doty wrote:
> 
> Nobody else has really thought about the magnitude of the problem. I challenge you to make a list.

You are changing the subject, yet again.   This is about you, John.


> I encourage people to contribute to gedasymbols. Where is your contribution?

Changing the subject, yet again.   

I have already acknowledged your contribution.   I wouldn't in a million years expect you to acknowledge mine.    



>> Again, you're arguing against a position that nobody is arguing for.
> 
> Not true.

Really?  Exactly *who* is arguing that we should have a built-in symbol for every possible use?   
It's clear enough that the only person arguing that is YOU, and you're only putting it out there to argue against it.   Another classic straw man.  


> If the database behind the GUI tool is inadequate, the GUI gets in the way. Users will have to get used to reaching around it anyway. That will drive away everyone who thinks it should actually work, while the few remaining will drop back to the workable flow, and the cute GUI feature will have only driven people away.

You're making assumptions upon assumptions so that you can insult the result as unworkable.   Not helpful.

Perhaps my memory is limited, but the only "workable flow" that I can recall you acknowledging is your own.  Everything else that all of us do is just a "cute toy" to you-- we get it.  (Some of us use those "cute toys" to make a living, you know.)

Here's my opinion, which I don't require anyone to share:  gEDA is fundamentally a graphics suite-- for creating graphical data like schematics and circuitry --and it's actually okay for a graphics suite to have a GUI.  And I would definitely *encourage* our community to be able to discuss things like this, out in the open, without all the bashing.



> This problem is already present in the component selection dialog in gschem. A *true* advance in gEDA would be to have this lead the user directly into the necessary customization, instead of promoting the illusion that this step isn't necessary.

  Sounds like there's a hint of a possibly useful idea in there.  Would you consider maybe someday contributing *constructively* to the dialog?  How about making suggestions about ways to do that, or steering the conversation that way, rather than just shooting down everything that comes by, whether or not you agree with it?



> Ah, but it does have to be perfect. Otherwise there will be lots of whining about what a piece of crap gEDA is. People won't be able to find their favorite component. People will design boards, fabricate them, and be shocked when pin numbers turn out to be wrong.

  Nice red herring.  Whether or not the symbols are *wrong* is totally irrelevant to the existence of a database. You know perfectly well that goofs in pin numbers could happen in an otherwise ideally perfect database or without one at all, even now at gedasymbols.org.   (I've been bitten by such things in other EDA systems; I know the pain.)

   Besides, people already complain about what a piece of crap gEDA is-- in large part because it doesn't have ways for people to find their favorite component.    So...if *that* is our biggest worry, we've got *nothing* to lose.   


> You have no comprehension of how far "every likely use" goes. gEDA isn't just a toy for hobbyists.


Do you really feel like you're making valid argument by insulting me?   You don't know my background, nor what I comprehend.   

The only one referring to gEDA as a toy is you, and that's not helpful either.


> Sure. Contribute your symbols to gedasymbols. I encourage this. But the delusion that this can somehow lead to a situation where a user can just pick a component from a menu without both careful checking and customization is damaging.

Thank you for calling me delusional.  That really helps move things along, doesn't it.


>> Your continued abusive behavior towards n00bz and veterans alike here is a
>> damaging, dead end path that leads to loss for all of us.  EDA is
>> irrelevant to the problem.
> 
> Huh? EDA is what gEDA does!

 The ONLY problem that I've been trying to address here in the last few messages is your unnecessary and abusive behavior towards individuals on this mailing list.    It's got to stop.    

No, EDA really hasn't got a damn thing to do with it.  


>  I would wish you could appreciate this, and adopt the Hippocratic principle: first, do no harm.


Again, you have no idea what I do and don't like about gEDA, nor on my stance on what features do and don't belong in a particular program.   You're making some pretty wild (and wrong) assumptions there.  

 What's obvious is this: you are doing a great deal of harm to the community with these abusive messages.  Perhaps you should you yourself consider adopting the Hippocratic principle with respect to the gEDA community.   






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