Re: Just a note,

[JF Martinez <jfm2@club-internet.fr>]

> 
> > Indy wants to be for end user's but only by accident.  Main goal is to
> > help, either directly or ideologically, the spreading of Linux.  But
> > Unix users are about 5% of the users of computers, so spreading Linux
> > means taking care of those 95% of users who are not Unix users.  THta
> > means we have to go outside Unix territorry.  That means end users,
> > but also small companies, liberal professions (that is the name we
> > give in France to peole like lawyers, doctors, writers), desktop users
> > and so on.  One of the things you have to keep in mind when thinking
> > in those people is that a sizable share of them have to learn at the
> > school of hard knocks and that for most of them computers are not
> > their work so the time they spend studying is time they have to
> > steal from their real work.  All this means you have to think in them
> > like if they were Mac users and provide them simple tools.
> 
>     Ahhh, ok i see now. This clarification helps a lot.  I thought the
> project was just towards end users, but now that you've clarifiy i
> understand a bit more on where its going.  Another reason why communication
> is good.
> 

Say that Indy aims to care for those people who are not well cared by
others and that those people happen to be end users.


> > > can't just be a distrubtion that makes and adds some apps to the regular
> =
> > > distrubtion.  Other wise we would just as well call our selves a free =
> > > software group (nothing wrong with that).  I think sometimes we have to
> =
> > > concentrate less an apps, there are people out there willin to do that,
> =
> > > and look more at the overall way of linux is set up.  It still feels =
> > > like a server O/S which has to change.  Though i believe one of linux's
> =
> 
> > Right and cleaning Indy of some apps I think second rate or useless is
> > one of my goals but I was not able to carry the task.
> 
> Ok, I'm glad and maybwhile using linux i try to keep in mind when looking at
> poorly designed applications.
> 
> 
>  > > Also I still feel strongly that we put too much on a CD. Corel Linux, =
> > > the distrubtion I think is leading the home desktop distrubtions is fit
> =
> > > with a slim 250 megs of data.  Only KDE, and it limits it self with =
> > > apps. Now look at the other extreme, Mandrake over 1000 megs of data, =
> > > over 7 window managers, 3 RPM managers and more.  People will be =
> >
> > Well IMHO Corel has an agenda: sell Word Perfect and Corel Draw so it
> > feels logical they are not overly eager to put Abiword or the Gimp in
> > the distrib.  :-) I am not convinced by Corel: papers are talking
> > about it like if it ware the ninth marvel of the world but everything
> > I have read about it was already in Caldera 2.2.
> 
> I see your point with Corel Draw and Word Perfect, but I still see it as
> very profesinal and quality distribution.  The File Manager was one of the
> most impressive of them all makes me wonder why anything else would be used.
> 

I was not questionning that but the fact columnists were presenting as
new some faetures who were in Caldera.  

> > One of the things I don't want in Indy is becoming a monster
> > distribution: there is a limit on how much the human mind can cope so
> > there is no use in having 7 window managers.  It is true I want to
> > cover needs so I add apps that RedHat does not include but ideally for
> > every need I would like to include only one app for each task: the
> > best one.  Sometimes I have to water down that ideal: when there is no
> > clear winner, when the best one requires a monster machine or when an
> > app I would like to ditch has a sizable user base so it would harm too
> > many people if we removed it.  But I don't add software just for the
> > sake of having a marketing argument.
> 
> If we ever did go multi-cd i would suggest creating an installation cd -
> with reasonable amount apps and X, and then a sort of powertools CD with the
> million of apps that fill the niches.
> 

I am not too fond of PowerTools like CDs.  First because many times I
hae found applications who should have been in the main distribution
in the first place and second because at times I find that trhe author
of the distribution just downloaded archive sites and burned them.  It
has some usefulness specvially for people with no acces to large
bandwidth but this is not what I call a distribution CD.

When we will really go multiCD (present versuion will be just a hack)
I want that the user wanting to install a piece of software just opens
the upgrading tool, selects what he wants and then he is prompted for
the CDs to insert.  Ie no 'by hand browsing' just to find what he
wants.  In addition even after Indy is multiCD I will still oppose to
having 7 window managers.

> 
> > One of the first things I included in Indy was CBB who has the same
> > ecological niche and can read Quicken files.  Gnucash is nicer but it
> > uses double entry accounting (ie what is used professionally) instead
> > of the more intuitive single entry accounting.  However if people
> > support you in this issue I agree we move to Gnucash.  Remeber that
> > until I get Indy installation working I am not going to spend time on
> > apps and that then we will probably under pressure to release so
> > Gnucash or any other app will have far better chances if you can point
> > me to a _good_ RPM somewhere (rpmfind.net is first place to search).
> 
> Maybe I'll let my dad try both out and see which he finds easier to use.  He
> mainly uses quicken on windows.
> 

Good idea

> Also to update you on how the postfix frontend is evolving I'm first
> developing strong functions to read and write to the config files before I
> move on to the interface.  However if you have an idea of how you think
> interface should be setup I would be more than happy if you let me know.
> Knowing that I don't have an incredible amount of experience I could
> probably destroy what was a pretty good idea with a bad interface. You seem
> to use postfix before so maybe you would have a good idea on how to set it
> up.
> 

Basically I don't think we should spend time on a general tool: you
can make simplifying assumptions like a single ISP and al mail being
forwarded to it.

Ideal interface would be somewaht like this:

Name of the ISP mail server:  
Continuous access to the net: Yes/no  (If no we have to turn off DNS lookup)

User Mapping (see below for examples):

jfm@agnes      jfm2@club-internet.fr
linus@penguin  linus.torvalds@transmeta.com

Not much more: rememeber that complicated setups rarely occur in
small entities and that those have trained staffs available.

Also the tool must not need to cover exotic cases: I prefer a tool who
really helps 90% of people to a tool who can configure all cases but
so complex nobody uses it.


-- 
			Jean Francois Martinez

Project Independence: Linux for the Masses
http://www.independence.seul.org