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Re: Tux Racer 0.10 Released

On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, Steve Baker wrote:

> Mads Bondo Dydensborg wrote:
> > 
> > On Sun, 19 Mar 2000, Steve Baker wrote:
> > > > ...is two projects I have
> > > > yet to figure out how to compile. At some points I have spend most of a
> > > > day trying to get them to work, and have finally given up. And, as you
> > > > state it always seems to be the support libraries that are the problem.
> <snip>
> > In my case I _do_ suspect a problem with my configuration. I have more
> > versions of Mesa installed then I dare to count. Problem is that I have
> > quake, quake2, quake3 and ut working (dual v2, glide, mesa3dfx), and I
> > dare not mess to much around with mesas for fear of breaking these games.
> > OTOH I do not want to give bug reports that I am not certain about.
> Well, it's really not fair to complain that these programs are hard to
> install and that RPM's are some kind of answer when it's evident that your
> machine is in something of a mess and even with RPM's there is zero chance
> that they'd install cleanly.

You seem to have misunderstood (probably due to a bad formulation on my
part[1]) what my intent with mentioning tux_AQFH and the others was. I was
simply trying to support the posters story that compiling/installation/run
problems _do_ stop people from trying things out and thereby contributing.

It was _not_ my intent to say 

- that it is the authors fault
- that it is the softwares fault
- that the users behave correctly in these situations
- that I feel my own behauvoir is correct
- that I have any easy solution to this

I am sorry that I mentioned tux_aqfh in a way that made you feel I was
complaining about tux_aqfh. It was not my intent. tux_aqfh is a game I
really want to try out and have been frustrated with not getting to
work. However, I only blame myself (and my configuration) for this.

In a sense the problem is actually not related to tux_aqfh at all, but
is more related to the difficulties of maintaining libraries, etc. But I
am (almost) only exposed to these kind of problems when I try to
compile/install/run games. (OSS games that is - commercial games tend to
provide the libs they need).

> > I was mostly thinking of pingus here. If I am not mistaken, Pingus relies
> > on clanlib, that relies on hermes and a couple of other things.
> Pingus did install cleanly once I'd tracked down appropriate versions of
> ClanLib and Hermes.  I feel that Hermes should really be a part of ClanLib
> since I've never come across a program that used Hermes without Clanlib
> or vice-versa.

I believe I downloaded in the range of 6 libraries, and eventually got
missing something.h files that I simply could not resolve nor figure out
where to get.
> > > I don't produce RPM's and such because it's a LOT of trouble to do so - and
> > > the Linux distro guys are good at that.  Since they make profit from doing
> > > this, I don't feel any compunction at letting them do the work.
> > >
> > 
> > If I ever get Tux_AQFH going, I could probably supply you with a spec file
> > for rh6.x that would make rpm building trivial.
> That's really not the point.  I'd still only be able to produce RPM's
> for Intel CPU's - with all the attendant dependancies of specific glibc
> versions...it's a lot more hassle than I need.

I could give you a spec file that would build a .src.rpm. Users could use
this to build binary rpms for their own platform. I believe that would
resolve most of the issues you are talking about.

> > Summary: My posting yesterday was _not_ a bug report for neither Pingus,
> > Tux_AQFH or Tuxracer. It was simply a confirmation that "compile troubles
> > _do_ stop people from checking things out and reduces the number of
> > potential developers". I believe this is a more common problem than one
> > would think, but I have no real solution to this. One thing that could
> > help was test programs - but isn't ./configure supposed to take care of
> > that?
> Dunno - I agree that compilation problems are likely to scare off naive
> users - but the kind of person who might contribute seems to me to be
> more likely to persevere at least as far as asking why it doesn't compile.

I argue that you loose some in this process. Games are about having
fun. If I never get around to try tux_aqfh, it may not trigger me in a way
that would otherwise have motivated me to contribute a lot of stuff.

In your case the issue seems to be that you need content developers. They
may have an even harder time getting things to work.

I want to stress that I do agree with you that users (myself
included) should take the trouble to make things work and give decent bug
reports. Eventually I will.



Mads Bondo Dydensborg.                               madsdyd@challenge.dk
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