Re: IRC w/ Joseph

[Jason Pincin <chardros@linuxkb.org>]

Well - Greetings Team,

As people might imagine - I completely disagree on just about ALL the
things touched on here.  I'll address each in turn, and then give my
overall comments at the bottom.

> concerns like "release early, release often".  I think we need to get more
> into that mode.  Let the community know we're still alive.  Releasing the
> source code too.  

Very good point.  What we need to remember is that we are a FREAKING
web site!!!!  There is a HUGE differance between a web site, and an
application someone downloads and installs.  For one, we are FORCING
the upgrade... people don't have a choice, if something breaks,
everyone is SOL.  In the application world, you don't have top
download it - youy can just keep chuggin along, and the guys willing
to test, debug, etc will download the newest stuff, help debug it, and
do all the other things that make open source work.  

I like the staging model.  You don't see the top places like FM and /.
and whatever else constantly shoving new, untested features into the
site and hosing people.  

> I'm really not convinced that anyone is going to download our code looking
> for a security bug.  And even if they did, they'd be more likely to send
> us a patch to fix it than try to exploit it.  We're just not that big of a
> target to warrent an attack of this nature.  And if people are still
> worried, there's nothing preventing us from doing a nightly cronjob to

Well then don't be concerned about it.  I am.  Dan is, I believe thats
enough of a concern to make it valid.  

What you are getting at here is immediate release of our software.
Please, point out to me a BIG linux Open Source site out there today
that has code in CVS.  C'mon.  Just one.  Other than the brilliant Mr.
Cheek.  When your talking about a "service" instead of an
"application" I think the rules change a bit.  I think that the trends
being set by other open source web sites would serve us well enough,
at least in the beginning.  These guys package up the source at
regular intervals (when they deem it functional) and release it.
Nothing wrong with that.

> I'm not really concerned if we push something into production that is
> broken or doesn't work completely yet.  We can put notes about "this new

I am concerned.  See comments above.  In addition to that, this is a
service, a web site, something that anyone and there brother can
EASILY see.  They don't have to be running Linux to look at us.  They
don't have to be running Linux to form an opinion of us.  We're going
to be attempting to appeal to non-linux audiences as well as Linux
audiences... and some of those people will just be LOOKING for reasons
to talk us down.  I don't want to give them any.

> Showing that we're hard at work, will only increase people's awareness of
> our project and increase our mindshare.

Increasing mindshare is important.  But I think there are other ways
to go about it than Cheek's grand vision.

> I also noticed that Joe seems to be interested in working on the areas
> that we need the most help in.  It's almost too good to be true.  Even if
> he's not a rocket scientist in PHP, Jason's objects should make it easy
> for him to do good work.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not talking trash about Joe joining up.  If
he wants to get on board and help out, thats fine.

BUT - if he is going to set stipulations as to his helping us such as
"i don't want to waste my time on anything that won't have something
in 6 months"... and I'm not arguing whether or not he's justified in
saying that... what I'm saying is I don't care what he "demands".  

I don't like his gung-ho "my way or the high-way" attitude.  You may
not have noticed too much of it in the conversation yesterday - but
it's there.  

I really don't look forward to working with him.  Everytime I talk to
him he says or does something to cause me to dis-like him less.  Thats
my opinion, and I'm entitled to it :).

> I've been saying for quite some time now that we need more people, I think
> we found that.

I'm not so sure.  I'm going to get him what he asked for, and go from
there.  I'm not closing any doors - but I'm not sold as to the
"perfect fit" of it all.  I'm kinda leaning the other way.  

-- 
Jason Pincin
Linux Knowledge Base Project Leader (http://www.linuxkb.org/)
http://vodka.linuxkb.org/~chardros/