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Re: Bigger Thinking [was: Tor Project 2008 Tax Return]

Thus spake Al MailingList (alpal.mailinglist@xxxxxxxxx):

> > And what about Microsoft? I think someone should be targeting/lobbying them
> > to include a Tor client and default bridge relay in every version of Windows
> > 8 or 9. Find out what it would take to get them to do this,
> Sorry, what's in this for Microsoft? Being a good corporate citizen?
> >From a business point of view, including a peer to peer style client
> BY DEFAULT in an operating system has PR nightmare written all over
> it, but they will take the risk of lost revenue for being a good
> corporate citizen? I find it unlikely...

Actually there are several large-userbase companies that want to
include Tor by default in their product, either as a client, a relay,
or a bridge.  Unfortunately, the only answer we have for them in the
immediate term is "For the love of goddess don't do that, you'll
destroy Tor". 

Our immediate concern is making it possible to support at least a
fraction of one of these userbases in either the relay or the bridge
roll. The relay role will require a significant update to Tor's
directory mechanisms, and we are trying to drive academic research
forward in these areas. The bridge roll may be more immediately
doable, but we're not sure that bridgedb wouldn't just fall over yet

> > of having a European voice in all this. That means another $20M a year in
> > funding please. At least. Then there is law enforcement and the military and
> > intelligence agencies - for f*ck sakes if someone at the Tor Project can't
> > see them as low hanging fruit then I will start to cry.
> Right... so in the case of law enforcement, you are going to ask law
> enforcement to fund a project that (this is not my opinion, this will
> be theirs) allows people to access illegal content anonymously and
> makes their job that much harder? That's low hanging fruit? Hate to
> hear what the high hanging fruit will involve :)

Actually, most competent law enforcement agents realize that what gets
them the most points are sting operations that topple entire
distribution rings, gangs, or bot herders. These sorts of stings
require heavy use of Tor. Roger and Andrew actually spend a good
amount of their time talking with law enforcement and giving
presentations about what Tor is and how they can use it to anonymize
their investigative activity.

> I think if you want a job at the tor project, you should just ask :P
> And maybe just provide them with past results you've obtained for
> similar organisations or in a lobbyist role, as opposed to getting
> frustrated on mailing lists :)

Actually almost all of the people working for Tor today started out on
the mailinglists, frustrated with some aspect of Tor or other :). 

Of course, they also tended to naturally step in to some sort of
volunteer capacity along their areas of interest, as a result of this
frustration. Tor tends to care about this level of passion way more
than resumes or interviews.

The Tor Project is trying most of the things Julie has suggested. It
just takes time, effort, communication, and people. We don't mind
letting our consistently passionate volunteers talk to people about
Tor in official capacity, either.

Mike Perry
Mad Computer Scientist
fscked.org evil labs

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