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Re: [tor-talk] webmail send while using TOR is tagged as spamends up in spam

----- Original Message -----
From: "me@xxxxxxxxxxxx" <me@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: tor-talk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] webmail send while using TOR is tagged as spamends up in spam


On 19.07.16 08:13, Friet Pan wrote:
> i use yahoo to mail with mailinglists but i use TOR to connect to yahoo.
> tuns out that all my posts now end up in everyones spam folders.
> Is this because the tor exitnodes are used by spammers?
> or is every mail that was send from a TOR user falsely marked as spam?
> also the subscription confirmation email i received from this list ended up in yahoo's spam.
I see that roughly 10% of messages from tor-talk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
from different people go into Gmail's spam folder. If you send a message 
via Yahoo's webmail, the message is sent from Yahoo's server, not from 
Tor. So it's not likely that using Tor is relevant in your case.

Yahoo detects that i come from a tor exit node (known tor exit node, or known exit node that once was used to send spam perhaps??)

Anyway Yahoo then rates me as 'unauthenticated user' and adds a metatag? ot someting that google recognizes as 'unauthenticated' whatever that means...

And then in googles terms my mail is 'spam' in googles eyes.

That's WRONG. Since i send a normal mail to a normal mailing list. 

Now i cannot sue Google.. But Torproject is harmed by google, and yahoo, AOL, and the rest of the cartel. And all TOR users are affected.  the cartel damages our privacy.

If the torproject cab sue the crap out of them and then use the money that comes out of that to improve TOR and our privacy. Then PLEASE DO!!

> So now i also wonder how many people on this list are not receiving THIS message.
This message has not gone into the spam folder.

Since i did NOT sent THIS message trough TOR to make sure that it had a chance to come tough (at the expense of MY privacy)

> Can i sue yahoo for falsely tagging my mails as spam?  or better can TOR sue Yahoo? :-D and win and get a lot of money to put into development?
> please have a look at dmarc.org it tries to explain in lawyer-ish speak how the yahoo, gmail, facebook aol, paypal, ebay, amazon cartel teamed together to force people to 'autenticate'
> authenticate as in ...get a code that they can use to invade our privacy. (or is this my brain going into paranoia mode?)
No spam filter is perfect. My advice: do something useful, dude, instead 
of suing people providing you a service for free.

I know a way to block spam that is nearly perfect, though i'm not a developer, and don't have the skills to DIY it.  I want to share this idea, and discuss the details. But first i need to see that someone grasps the concept.

> can this be fixed?
> Or do we need a new email protocol that respects privacy by default,  decentralized, with whitelist and request to communicate and eventually a blacklist to be able to block extreme cases.
Privacy is a broad term. I guess privacy means anonymity here. Then your 
anonymity conflicts with my desire to throw away spam. How can I know 
whether a message is a spam without reading it? One method is when an 
algorithm reads the message. This method is employed in many mail 
services. It is not perfect, as you see. Another method is when I read 
only messages digitally signed and from people which I trust. This 
method is more powerful than the previous and requires senders to reveal 
their identity. You see now?

I *intentionally* use Gmail spam filter despite being able not to use 
it. Because 95% of messages in the spam folder are real spam. Because 
few people sign digitally their messages.

Googles spamfilter SUCKS it does allow spam to arrive in your mailbox.
My idea does NOT allow spammers to even contact you, maybe one time...  but after that you can block them for life...

So spam doe not NEED a spambox when it doe not arrive,
So phishing does not arrive (and know that your mailbox exists, simply because the spam did NOT bounce)
So this is enough to keep your email addres on a spammers address list?

but this is only one part of the idea.  But it is the most essential part..

> is it enough to move away from yahoo, or will the same stuff happen when using another email provider?
At least, a mail service of a paid web hoster allows you to turn off 

spam filtering.

But then it still allows spammers to send you spam on that address. :-) 

catch 22222222 and a half.  I'm looking for a real solution that solves the CAUSE of the problem instead of 'pharmaceutical' medicating the effect, and keeping the cause where it is. (only to sell more crap to pamper the effect, and give you cancer on top of it that needs even more pharma shit)

Is that a good way to describe it?

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