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Re: [tor-talk] Until there's a REAL effing way to communicate, that evey1 can use, I'm DONE

Hi David,

 From: David Vorick <david.vorick@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "tor-talk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <tor-talk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Until there's a REAL effing way to communicate, that evey1 can use, I'm DONE

I can only speak for myself, but I stayed away from mailing lists when I
was a 'newb' because they seemed strange and technical. This is also back
at a time when I did not use email very often.

I think that how much you use email is closely related to how much you like
mailing lists. As someone who checks email every day, I am very partial to
mailing lists, it allows me to monitor everything that comes through the
list. Forums hurt my eyes a bit more, and often I can't figure out which
threads have valuable information.

But there was a time when I used forums a lot more than email. I read
everything that would go through my favorite forums, and keeping track of
threads was much easier.

Ultimately, I think that having an email list and a stack-overflow is just
fine. If we had forums we would need knowledgeable people to read every
thread that got created (or at least every thread that got created in their
particular sub-forum). Right now I'm not sure there are enough people ready
to read the forum. I wouldn't read a forum, I'm only on this list because
it's convenient through email for me.

And I don't see why there can't be an unofficial tor forum. If you want one
so badly make it yourself, and see if people populate it. If the forum you
make gains enough traction on its own, I'm sure it would gain official

If we had an official forum, and at least a few Tor people agreed to act as "mentors," we could ask for volume moderators, and those moderator wouldn't need to know much about Tor (unlike the mentors). That way the mentors have greatly reduced work load and there's a greater likelihood of finding a few non-Tor experts that are otherwise trustworthy as moderators that can 'run' the forum.

I know from experience, being part of many forums from the ground up, "if you build it, they will come." That is, if "its" built and operated correctly. I think the forum would take on a vibrant life of its own, and Tor people would like to post there once they see how well it can be operated. 

A well run forum is an amazingly easy way to communicate in a very efficient manner, even with translation mods (IIRC) so non-English users can still derive benefit until there's a large non-English speaking population.

Forums are great because they're very easy to search and search-engines tend to index and search them well. And we can "sticky" important topics or commonly asked questions with answers, etc. Really, there's a lot we can do that would make the forum a great place for newbs and non-newbs to communicate and cohabitate.

In terms of "why don't *I* make forum myself," please see my e-mail regarding that topic I sent yesterday [0]. That said, even if I could get the forum up and running so that security experts are happy, I wouldn't be willing to just cross my fingers and hope the Tor  Project will like my work. If there's no real interest from the Tor Project [1,2] then I'm not about to roll the dice and spend all that money and time, for what could be for naught.

[0] https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2013-June/028563.html
[1] https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2013-June/028480.html
[2] https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2013-June/028507.html
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