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Re: [tor-talk] Operation Onymous against hidden services, most DarkNet markets are down

On Fri, 7 Nov 2014 13:04:38 +0200
Jon Tullett <jon.tullett@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> On 7 November 2014 05:39, Juan <juan.g71@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > On Thu, 6 Nov 2014 15:51:15 -0500
> > "Jim Smith" <jimsmitty@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> Usually you won't go through the trouble of using Tor unless your
> >> privacy is being attacked. Once you start using Tor it's easier to
> >> justify surveillance because of Tor's reputation. Now after all
> >> that you have to figure out how to be anonymous while doing
> >> business. We haven't mentioned how to avoid phone tapping, hidden
> >> microphones, and people following you in the streets. Tor is a
> >> very small piece to the privacy/anonymity puzzle.
> >
> >
> >         So why would people be tracked in the first place? Are
> >         you saying that the US government nazis track all of US
> >         subjects all the time, and that's how they find people who
> > run 'hidden' services?
> Well, I wouldn't want to rule anything out :) But in this case, we're
> talking about hidden services which proxied for drug dealers. Whatever
> your personal feelings about it, the war on drugs is a given. So the
> reality is that there are enormous intelligence and law enforcement
> operations targeting people in the drug trade. If one of them starts
> to operate (or do business with) a hidden service, is it so unlikely
> that that service could get caught up in the investigation?

	That is possible, but I'm not sure I'm fully following. Suppose 
	that some "off line" dealer has his phone tapped, and then he
	starts selling through a market like silk road. What of it? Why
	would that lead in any way to finding out who the hidden
	service's owner/admin is?  The hidden service's owner isn't
	going to talk on the phone with the dealers who use his site.
	That is not his 'business model'.

	In the case of silk road 2 apparently the owner was a 26 year
	old who even worked for SpaceX for a while. Not exactly a
	memeber of the italian mafia, I'd say. So why would this
	person's communications be monitored? Some genius government
	employee said : let's tap some random guys' phones out of 300
	millions and see if we find silk road's owner? 

> If anything, I'd have thought that the coordinated takedowns lend
> credibility to that argument - it's not like dealers would only do
> business through a single marketplace at a time. Compromise or turn a
> big dealer or two, and you'd probably be able to target a whole lot of
> marketplaces at once.

	Like I said, I'm not seeing the connection between dealers and
	hidden services admins.

> I'm not saying that's what happened, just that it offers a plausible
> option that doesn't require additional tinfoil hattery beyond the
> norm.
> -J
> PS: I also think that it's a bit aggressive to describe anyone who
> offers discussion or argument as a "pentagon lackey". But then I'm
> probably one of them myself, right? :p

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