Torizens, this is a concern troll: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_% 28Internet%29#Concern_troll They have repeatedly said they "support Tor" and "want to be wrong, but..." and then spread poison. List administrators, you have dedicated significant resources towards stopping censorship, and I understand that you don't want to use the banhammer lightly, but any unkempt garden inevitably becomes a bed of weeds, and this is something you need to kill NOW. Even if you hold the view that this person is not intending to disrupt this list (which I don't think you have -- you're all intelligent people and I think you can see where this is going), it should be obvious that this line of conversation (i.e., "is anonymity only for criminals/the wantonly evil") is not appropriate for this list. List members, please don't respond to concern trolls. They're easy to spot: if someone says "I would LIKE to believe the positive case for Tor... But Tor is totally evil in practice," or in general, says "I agree with you, BUT I disagree with you and you are enabling evil," they are a concern troll. Just look for the abrupt about-face. Ignore the veneer of congeniality. It's a lie. On Thu, 2014-10-02 at 18:35 -0400, z9wahqvh wrote: > On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Mirimir <mirimir@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > On 10/02/2014 01:24 PM, z9wahqvh wrote: > > > > > > Even if (for argument's sake) 99% of Tor users/uses were unqualifiedly > > evil, that would say nothing about Tor. At most, it would speak to its > > relatively slow uptake overall, and perhaps to the prevalence of evil in > > the world. An anonymity system with a backdoor for outing evil (however > > defined) would be unworkable, and would soon die. > > > > > I don't know how to parse "say" in this paragraph. It certainly seems to > "say" something about the role of unsurveillable absolute anonymous > communications systems and who is going to be attracted to them and why. It > also would seem to raise serious questions about whether such efforts > should be supported--and, to raise questions raised in other threads here, > whether ISPs and other service providers and websites should let Tor relays > through. > > Note that if you are correct, you are painting an extremely dark picture of > our political future, in which constitutional governance and rule of law > become, strictly speaking, impossible. You may think that this will > decrease the amount of evil in the world. My reading of world history > suggests otherwise. > > I'm not at all clear why anyone would want to trying to help such an effort > along, unless one has a very apocalyptic view of the future. > > Much more apocalyptic than the one in which our extremely flawed political > system continues to be able to operate, and possibly be revised in favor of > better ones. In a world of unsurveillable communications, rule of law and > constitutional governance are over. -- Sent from Ubuntu
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