Re: [pygame] java pygame

["Edward Povazan" <epovazan@telus.net>]

Hello,

I've been thinking about my project some more. There are 2 ways to go about
it, writing a python browser plugin, or porting pygame to Java.
I still prefer the second option, as it would be written to work with 1.1
JVMs, and so instantly portable to almost any browser.
Also, I know nothing about writing browser plugins, and a plugin is a per
browser per platform deal.

Jython is ok at python 2.1 level for me. Also performance is not a problem,
it is much slower than Java, but pygame for Java would be a Java
implementation, with Jython being glue code that creates the actual game.
The other cool thing about Jython is you can optimize quickly by writing
some replacement java code (heh, heh, and break compatibility back to
CPython)

Since I am new to pygame, I am just going to code this little game in python
first, and then decide how I will get it working in a browser. I am still
leaning towards a Java port, as java applets will require almost nothing
from the user to use.
I can use TinyPTC for the graphics side.
Mouse and keyboard events I will repackage myself.
Sound is the problem, still haven't found any LGPL mixers and sound players,
but I am sure they are out there.

Once my game is running, I will start experimenting with Java/Jython and
report back, since I don't really know what I am doing yet :)
-Ed



----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Hancock" <hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
To: "Edward Povazan" <epovazan@telus.net>
Cc: <pygame-users@seul.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [pygame] java pygame


> Hello again,
>
> On Monday 13 January 2003 11:45 am, Edward Povazan wrote:
> > Is there such a thing as a pure Java PyGame.
> > I ask because I use Jython with Java, and am writing a little game that
> > needs to run as an Applet as well as an .exe.
> > So I will code most of the game in Python, and with Jython I would have
> > hardly any porting issues to deal with between the .exe and applet.
> >
> > If this does not exist, is this of any interest to anyone? I will most
> > likely attempt a partial port in the near future.
>
> I've been researching a very similar problem, so I think maybe my
information
> might be of some use to you. I'm not really so much interested in games
that
> will run this way (though I think they'd be cool), but in clientside
support
> for web-editable projects.
>
> I'm working on a web application (using Zope) that will allow people to
> collaborate in a more informal and direct way than has been possible up to
> now.  One thing I want is more WYSIWYG editing (including graphics
editing).
>
> Unfortunately, the situation is rather dismal if you don't want to make
your
> users download and install software. Even with Java this is a problem,
> because most of the reasonably useful software requires Java 1.2 or
higher,
> which is not provided by the JVMs embedded in consumer web browsers, and
> which is Non-Free, to boot.  So, you're still going to make them download
and
> install a plugin, which is crummy.
>
> The solution I hit upon was to use Jython on Java 1.0 (which *is* the Java
> provided in consumer browsers), and use only the AWT interface for
graphics.
> I planned to build a platform on that, using PyUI (which is a GUI toolkit
> which uses a lightweight renderer -- only about 250 lines of code).  It
> already has rendering for PyGame and some other platforms.
>
> I figured that all I would have to do is port the PyUI renderer to the
> Jython/Java AWT canvas.  This would allow the GUI stuff to work. I'm not
sure
> what sort of support for primitive drawing (if any) that PyUI exposes,
> though. It's possible that one has to rely on the underlying graphics
> library.  Since the author developed it originally on PyGame, that
wouldn't
> surprise me too much.
>
> Unfortunately, although I keep saying I'm going to, I've never gotten
around
> to playing with PyGame itself, so I'm not sure what it can do or how to
use
> it.  I did do some programming with SDL (in C), so I have some idea of
what
> that is capable of.  Anyway, so I don't have a clear idea of the scale of
> what you've proposed to do, nor how much it would gain over just porting
the
> PyUI renderer, which is what I had in mind.  Of course, if the whole
PyGame
> platform were ported, it would obviously make a lot of games and stuff
work
> as applets, which would be a major milestone.
>
> Regarding Jython -- You should be aware, of course, that Jython lags
CPython
> by a bit -- the currently available Jython is roughly equivalent to Python
> 2.1.  There is a development effort to reproduce Python 2.2, but 2.3 is
still
> a ways off. So, it's not enough to assume that because Python 2.3 supports
> something that Jython will too. You'll have to be conservative.
>
> Another factor to consider, of course, is speed -- Jython code is slower
than
> either Java or Python, and you obviously can't use Psyco on it or
anything.
> That means that if your users want more speed, they will probably want to
be
> able to run the application natively -- i.e. install Python, download your
> program, and run it as an application. Or else, we'd need a Python
> interpreter plugin (which is another possibility, but a fairly big
project).
> However, power users will definitely want this speedup for many
applications
> (not to mention anyone with a slow computer).
>
> So, you really want your program to run on either the Jython or Python
> platforms.  And the ideal case is that the same program, without
> modifications, runs on both. I think that's feasible, but it will involve
> testing and documenting a subset of Python (especially the libraries) that
is
> "known to work" on both platforms. This kind of dual-platform Python
> environment is something that would be really useful for my project, and
I'm
> planning to create some kind of resource for that.
>
> Also, I know that you and I are not the only folks interested in Python
> applets -- I've brought this topic up on comp.lang.python once or twice,
and
> there were a number of interested people. The main consensus is that it's
> somewhat difficult technically, but I personally think there's a way
through.
>
> Given this fact, I wonder if it would be appropriate to form a SIG or
working
> group of some kind to share and coordinate ideas about this?  I could
> probably set up a wiki or something on our company site to support it, if
> there's enough interest.  Or we could see what it takes to get a SIG
mailing
> list at Python.org.
>
> Should I try to set something like that up?
>
> Cheers,
> Terry
>
> --
> Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
> Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com
>
> "Some things are too important to be taken seriously"
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>

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