Ordinarially, I don't forward private communications.
I make exceptions for threats of direct violence.
Dean's mail to me follows in its entirety.
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Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 20:56:09 -0800
From: Michael Dean <michaelldean@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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To: "Karsten M. Self" <kmself@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Off-list: Re: Talking Linux in School is a Serious Blunder!
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Quite frankly, after reviewing your checkered past, you are the last
person with qualifications to site in judgement of me, my style or my
comments. You are the last person I intend to share mirth. You don't
even talk like a human being, but rather some limited frustrated Lisp
program created by the mad scientist. Why you glommed onto me, with my
straightforward and concise statements of reality, I don't know. Maybe
it has to do with your current work, which in the sense of conscripted
thought, rates very high. The student usually does not criticize the
professor, which in reality, is our relationship, if any. Get an
advanced degree before you attempt to produce advanced ideas. I really
haven't seen anything with your name on it above the apprentice level in
quality, contribution,or conceptualization. I am as sure that the woman
you spoke of years ago was the last woman you dated, as I am sure that
no self respecting female would now give you the time of day. I laugh
when I envision you confronting a smiling woman and you say: your smile
does not parse. And I, I would be sharing her bed. You earn something
first, like any reasonable contribution to open source or something
other than a misfit degree at a second hand college before you caterwaul
others for making honest attempts at understanding. By the way, you
live in my area, but if should come face to face with you, my first
temptation would be to coldcock your ass. And while you are laying on
your back, do doubt bewildered by any real person's natural reaction
toward your whining hypocrisy, you can continue to squeek "that does not
parse, that does not parse, that does not parse" like the puppet to
conventionality you are.
Karsten M. Self wrote:
>(Off-list response)
>
>First: your initial post was _exceptionally_ difficult to parse. I'd
>suggest you clarify. I usually don't publically deride, but you're
>really making about _zero_ sense.
>
>The grain of truth: yes, dumping raw GNU/Linux on a non-adept school
>district is a fast route to failure. I think the adults in the audience
>will fess up to that quickly.
>
>
>Second: your quoting style leaves much to be desired, and more to be
>puzzled over WRT what is your own content and what's actually quoted.
>Suggest you read:
>
> "Email Quoting" from the Jargon File.
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/Email-Quotes.html
>
>I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you'll have to
>earn it. Really.
>
>How about you read what I wrote, take much of it tongue in cheek, laugh
>at both me and yourself, and give it a fresh start?
>
>
>Peace.
>
>
>on Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 04:44:08PM -0800, Michael Dean (michaelldean@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) wrote:
>
>
>>Karsten M. Self wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Some years back, I dated a woman who'd grown up in NYC. Sometimes, it
>>>took a while for audio input and communications to gel. Like the time
>>>she said: "we were all sitting around tokin'".
>>>
>>>"Smoking pot?"
>>>
>>>"No! "Tawkin'".
>>>
>>>In her case, I eventually worked it out. I think my first read is more
>>>apropos here.
>>>
>>>
>>>on Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 01:15:22PM -0800, Michael Dean
>>>(michaelldean@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I think that it is a major blunder to view any rational thrust into the
>>>>schools adaptation of Open Source as a Linux initiative.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>wow, did I strike a nerve or what? No one has reacted so sharply and
>>>in such an ideologue fashion since the Harvard guy told it like it is
>>>-- so much for political correctness.
>>>Pardon? I'm having a *hell* of a time parsing that.
>>>
>>>Have LGMs invaded your ectoderm? Did your brain take a vacation and
>>>forget to provide notice? Was it a good bottle of wine, or TJ's
>>>Two-buck Chuck?
>>>
>>>You haven't struck me as overly balanced at best here, but this is quite
>>>the leap, Michael.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Especially when schools, who are goal and objective driven, must sift
>>>>through thousands of duplicatory packages, many of dubious quality,
>>>>that comprise what I call the "kitchen sink" distros such as Redhat,
>>>>Suse, Mandrake and Debian.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>OK. Let's look at this. As it happens, I was just discussing distro
>>>choice at a high school computer lab this morning. Much of the
>>>substance is being worked into a page I'm putting together WRT choosing
>>>a GNU/Linux distro.
>>>
>>> http://linuxmafia.com/~karsten/GNU/Linux/linux-new.html
>>>
>>>Short answer for the moment is: "probably Ubuntu".
>>>
>>>
>>>First: the nice thing about kitchen-sink distros is that if you want
>>>to try a particular bit of software, odds are good it's already there.
>>>Mind, with a Debian based system, if it's _not_ already there, getting
>>>it there is pretty straightforward.
>>>
>>>Your objection transferred to libraries would read something like:
>>>
>>> I think that it is a major blunder to view any rational thrust into
>>> the schools adaptation of a library as a teaching initiative.
>>> Especially when schools, who are goal and objective driven, must sift
>>> through thousand of duplicatory books, many of dubious quality, that
>>> comprise what I call the "kitchen sink" subjects such as History,
>>> Culture, Biology, and Architecture.
>>>
>>>Um.
>>>
>>>The Computer. Is. A. Tool.
>>>
>>>Curriculum _is_ goal oriented. Identify your goals. Pick your tools.
>>>Proceed.
>>>
>>>Actually, I'm going through this process ATM, having sort of dropped out
>>>of the sky to assist in an existing class. Fortunately I'm both
>>>well-received and am being given a lot of leeway.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>We must, instead look at open source as a collection of tools to bbe
>>>>selected from the perspective of the teachers and admins.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Um. Like, duh!
>>>
>>>However: the selection of tools is *not* orthogonal to "kitchen sink"
>>>distros. Unless you're describing something quite different from what
>>>you appear to be writing. Perhaps a theosophical deconstruction of
>>>pre-Edwardian croquet?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>We must
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Oh yes, absolutely. We _must_. Imperative.
>>>
>>>Spare me. And the air. And think of the seals!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>produce an Educational System which is based on a minimalist, goal
>>>>driven philosophy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>That's some primer fertilizer you've got going Michael? How about
>>>starting a tomato garden?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>FreeBSD would work equally well in schools, and it has a more rational
>>>>license.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Cap'n! I don't think I canna hold her tagether much longer! She's
>>>breakin' up!
>>>
>>>Breath deeply, Michael. Try a paper bag.
>>>
>>>If you're trying to say anything remotely close to what you _are_
>>>saying, I think you've just grossly mistaken a curriculum for a distro.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I am collecting papers for an edited books on Transforming Schools
>>>>Through Goal Driven Open Source Software.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Please do us a favor: burn them.
>>>
>>>While you're at it, providing a co-gen facility would provide a social
>>>benefit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Any educator, or professional who can produce any
>>>>contribution to this title would be welcome to submit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Oh dear. Submission.
>>>
>>>Nay! Resist!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Thanks you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Thanks *you*. Might favor you've done us. Cheerio.
>>>
>>>
>>>Peace.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>
>> Ideologues must react sharply, but did I really hit such a nerve? So
>>much for faux political correctness.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>begin:vcard
>>fn:Michael Dean
>>n:Dean;Michael
>>email;internet:michael.dean@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>tel;work:925-370-8439
>>tel;fax:none
>>tel;pager:none
>>tel;home:925-286-5556
>>tel;cell:925-286-5556
>>x-mozilla-html:TRUE
>>version:2.1
>>end:vcard
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
Dr. Michael Dean, CEO
*/SourceView Corporation/*
716 Alhambra Ave.
Martinez, CA 94553
925-286-5556
mdean@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
*/SourceView/* enables customized, secure, web based, user application
computer servers and workstations for*/ schools, nonprofits and small
businesses/*. Our philosophy, vision, goals and objectives require a
goal-driven, minimalist Open Source (MIT/BSD licensed) distribution that
contains the full OSI stack of applications. */SourceView/* provides the
initial customized reference distribution free-of-charge! Winin 30 miles
of its Martinez office, */SourceView/* will also donate up to 30
workstations and one server running its software to nonprofit schools at
the K-8 level. */SourceView/* also enables, a structured,
crypto-graphically based infrastructure for installation, weekly
maintenance and upgrades that removes all posibility of successful
security exploits, spam and other malicious software exploits and
guarantees that each server is up to date.
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<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Quite frankly, after reviewing your checkered past, you are the last
person with qualifications to site in judgement of me, my style or my
comments. You are the last person I intend to share mirth. You don't
even talk like a human being, but rather some limited frustrated Lisp
program created by the mad scientist. Why you glommed onto me, with my
straightforward and concise statements of reality, I don't know. Maybe
it has to do with your current work, which in the sense of conscripted
thought, rates very high. The student usually does not criticize the
professor, which in reality, is our relationship, if any. Get an
advanced degree before you attempt to produce advanced ideas. I really
haven't seen anything with your name on it above the apprentice level
in quality, contribution,or conceptualization. I am as sure that the
woman you spoke of years ago was the last woman you dated, as I am sure
that no self respecting female would now give you the time of day. I
laugh when I envision you confronting a smiling woman and you say: your
smile does not parse. And I, I would be sharing her bed. You earn
something first, like any reasonable contribution to open source or
something other than a misfit degree at a second hand college before
you caterwaul others for making honest attempts at understanding. By
the way, you live in my area, but if should come face to face with
you, my first temptation would be to coldcock your ass. And while you
are laying on your back, do doubt bewildered by any real person's
natural reaction toward your whining hypocrisy, you can continue to
squeek "that does not parse, that does not parse, that does not parse"
like the puppet to conventionality you are.<br>
<br>
Karsten M. Self wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid20050305035629.GY12590@localhost" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">(Off-list response)
First: your initial post was _exceptionally_ difficult to parse. I'd
suggest you clarify. I usually don't publically deride, but you're
really making about _zero_ sense.
The grain of truth: yes, dumping raw GNU/Linux on a non-adept school
district is a fast route to failure. I think the adults in the audience
will fess up to that quickly.
Second: your quoting style leaves much to be desired, and more to be
puzzled over WRT what is your own content and what's actually quoted.
Suggest you read:
"Email Quoting" from the Jargon File.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/Email-Quotes.html";>http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/Email-Quotes.html</a>
I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you'll have to
earn it. Really.
How about you read what I wrote, take much of it tongue in cheek, laugh
at both me and yourself, and give it a fresh start?
Peace.
on Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 04:44:08PM -0800, Michael Dean (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:michaelldean@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>michaelldean@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</a>) wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Karsten M. Self wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Some years back, I dated a woman who'd grown up in NYC. Sometimes, it
took a while for audio input and communications to gel. Like the time
she said: "we were all sitting around tokin'".
"Smoking pot?"
"No! "Tawkin'".
In her case, I eventually worked it out. I think my first read is more
apropos here.
on Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 01:15:22PM -0800, Michael Dean
(<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:michaelldean@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>michaelldean@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</a>) wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I think that it is a major blunder to view any rational thrust into the
schools adaptation of Open Source as a Linux initiative.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">wow, did I strike a nerve or what? No one has reacted so sharply and
in such an ideologue fashion since the Harvard guy told it like it is
-- so much for political correctness.
Pardon? I'm having a *hell* of a time parsing that.
Have LGMs invaded your ectoderm? Did your brain take a vacation and
forget to provide notice? Was it a good bottle of wine, or TJ's
Two-buck Chuck?
You haven't struck me as overly balanced at best here, but this is quite
the leap, Michael.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Especially when schools, who are goal and objective driven, must sift
through thousands of duplicatory packages, many of dubious quality,
that comprise what I call the "kitchen sink" distros such as Redhat,
Suse, Mandrake and Debian.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">OK. Let's look at this. As it happens, I was just discussing distro
choice at a high school computer lab this morning. Much of the
substance is being worked into a page I'm putting together WRT choosing
a GNU/Linux distro.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://linuxmafia.com/~karsten/GNU/Linux/linux-new.html";>http://linuxmafia.com/~karsten/GNU/Linux/linux-new.html</a>
Short answer for the moment is: "probably Ubuntu".
First: the nice thing about kitchen-sink distros is that if you want
to try a particular bit of software, odds are good it's already there.
Mind, with a Debian based system, if it's _not_ already there, getting
it there is pretty straightforward.
Your objection transferred to libraries would read something like:
I think that it is a major blunder to view any rational thrust into
the schools adaptation of a library as a teaching initiative.
Especially when schools, who are goal and objective driven, must sift
through thousand of duplicatory books, many of dubious quality, that
comprise what I call the "kitchen sink" subjects such as History,
Culture, Biology, and Architecture.
Um.
The Computer. Is. A. Tool.
Curriculum _is_ goal oriented. Identify your goals. Pick your tools.
Proceed.
Actually, I'm going through this process ATM, having sort of dropped out
of the sky to assist in an existing class. Fortunately I'm both
well-received and am being given a lot of leeway.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">We must, instead look at open source as a collection of tools to bbe
selected from the perspective of the teachers and admins.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Um. Like, duh!
However: the selection of tools is *not* orthogonal to "kitchen sink"
distros. Unless you're describing something quite different from what
you appear to be writing. Perhaps a theosophical deconstruction of
pre-Edwardian croquet?
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">We must
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Oh yes, absolutely. We _must_. Imperative.
Spare me. And the air. And think of the seals!
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">produce an Educational System which is based on a minimalist, goal
driven philosophy.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">That's some primer fertilizer you've got going Michael? How about
starting a tomato garden?
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">FreeBSD would work equally well in schools, and it has a more rational
license.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Cap'n! I don't think I canna hold her tagether much longer! She's
breakin' up!
Breath deeply, Michael. Try a paper bag.
If you're trying to say anything remotely close to what you _are_
saying, I think you've just grossly mistaken a curriculum for a distro.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I am collecting papers for an edited books on Transforming Schools
Through Goal Driven Open Source Software.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Please do us a favor: burn them.
While you're at it, providing a co-gen facility would provide a social
benefit.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Any educator, or professional who can produce any
contribution to this title would be welcome to submit.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Oh dear. Submission.
Nay! Resist!
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Thanks you.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Thanks *you*. Might favor you've done us. Cheerio.
Peace.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">--
Ideologues must react sharply, but did I really hit such a nerve? So
much for faux political correctness.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">begin:vcard
fn:Michael Dean
n:Dean;Michael
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:email;internet:michael.dean@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>email;internet:michael.dean@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</a>
tel;work:925-370-8439
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tel;cell:925-286-5556
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
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<meta name="GENERATOR" content="OpenOffice.org 1.1 (Win32)">
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<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;">Dr. Michael Dean, CEO <br>
<b><i>SourceView
Corporation</i></b> <br>
716 Alhambra Ave. <br>
Martinez, CA 94553
<br>
925-286-5556</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mdean@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>mdean@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx</a> <br>
<b><i>SourceView</i></b><span style=""><span style="font-style: normal;">
enables customized, secure, web based, user application computer
servers and workstations for</span></span><b><i> schools, nonprofits
and small businesses</i></b>. Our philosophy, vision, goals
and objectives require a goal-driven, minimalist Open Source (MIT/BSD
licensed) distribution that contains the full OSI stack of
applications. <b><i>SourceView</i></b> provides the initial
customized reference distribution free-of-charge! Winin 30 miles of
its Martinez office, <b><i>SourceView</i></b><span style=""><span
style="font-style: normal;"> will also donate up to 30 workstations
and one server running its
software to nonprofit schools at the K-8 level. </span></span><b><i>SourceView</i></b>
also enables, a structured, crypto-graphically based infrastructure
for installation, weekly maintenance and upgrades that removes all
posibility of successful security exploits, spam and other malicious
software exploits and guarantees that each server is up to date. </p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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----- End forwarded message -----
--
Karsten M. Self <kmself@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
Three things are not to be trusted; a cow's horn, a dog's tooth, and
a horse's hoof.
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