Re: [school-discuss] Metadot and MIT

[Michael Dean <michaelldean@sbcglobal.net>]

I definitely agree with you regarding to the database abstraction 
layer!!  One of the problems in open source is the string of intricate 
decisions one must make in order to decide on the selection of 
application layer programs.  At the hardware level, if you have a 
variety or hodgepodge of equipment from a variety of manufacturers, 
installation of an operating system is more difficult.  In schools we 
see both older Macs that can't run OS-X and older PC's that can"t run 
XP, and keeping track of the various licenses related to these machines 
over time is arduous.  This is one component in our ROI/TCO equation.

This is why we have chosen for our push into schools a special fork of 
the Gentoo Linux.  It is harder to initially install, but then 
everything gets a lot easier after our initial reference CD-ROM is burnt 
and then either updated via Portage or via a reference CD-ROM for 
isolated machines.   For instance in a network of 100 rich clients, one 
server can update all sites in a matter of minutes.  In addition, not 
only is Gentoo a strong, mature nonprofit offering with a great support 
structure, Gentoo is also multiple platform, thus runs optimally on 
PPC's, INtel, AMD, AMD64, etc.    Going up the layers now is determined 
via a very explicit set of goals and objectives, where software is 
loaded in a minimalist fashion based on its perceived use and need at 
the server or workstation level, rather than the Redhat/Mandrake kitchen 
sink approach.  Ease of installation in a school environment (the forte 
of the debian based Xandros) is not a major issue, since there is 
usually a group of parents, or a paid SysAdmin, or as in our case, we 
install the reference distributions as part of our site-based to do this 
step.  Ease of maintenance and ease of upgrade is more important.

Selecting applications under Gentoo is a whiz -- just say "emerge 
opengroupware" and it gets done!!

Michael
Cameron Miller wrote:

> Thanks,
>
> I will check out ez publisher.
>
> I run mysql on several servers without violating the GPL.  MySql is 
> dual licensed, GPL and their commercial license, similar to the ez 
> publisher dual GPL and commercial license.
>
> Not being able to use multiple databases detracts from a products 
> usefulness for me.  If it is written using a database abstraction 
> layer, like the perl DBI/DBD or php's Pear DB or adodb the product can 
> easily use multiple database back ends.  I once saw an internal 
> product moved from mysql on HPUX to mssql on Windows NT with changes 
> to a couple of connect strings thanks to the DBI/DBD.
>
> It's good to hear the mysql developers sought assistance from the 
> postgres folks, and I am sure the postgres folks were more than 
> willing to help.  That tells me FLOSS developers are trying to create 
> the best products possible.
>
> - cameron
>
> Michael Dean wrote:
>
> > ez publisher!  With regard to mysql, to distribute it within your 
> > organization, such as on several servers, requires a commercial 
> > license.  Postgresql is Apache licensing.  Many CMS or CRM packages 
> > can now use postgresql but not mysql.  There are several comparison 
> > studies on the web which document the differences.  In fact, at the 
> > last Linuxwolrd, mysql sought the assistance of postgresql in 
> > improving.  Mysql is better at marketing.  My comparison was taken 
> > from cmsmatrix.org.
> > Cameron Miller wrote:
> >
> > > Haven't tried Metadot, mainly because I think mod_perl is a pain.  
> > > The project does appear to have lots of small and large users, 
> > > middle school through large U's.
> > >
> > > MySql is GPL licensed and freely available for download and use.  I 
> > > find MySql every bit as good as Postgres for most uses, and a lot 
> > > easier to set up and maintain than Postgres or Oracle.
> > >
> > > A lot of the features you cite as not being available in Metadot 
> > > apparently are, listed both at the cmsmatrix site and the Metadot 
> > > feature page. What is your suggestion for a CMS/portal doing all of 
> > > the things you state Metadot lacks?
> > >
> > > - cameron
> > >
> > > Michael Dean wrote:
> > >
> > > > if one wants to compare CMS/portals go to cmsmatrix.org.  I have 
> > > > some problems with metadot, which I have looked at in detail for 
> > > > smaller schools.  First, it is written in perl, which when it 
> > > > scales is very slow.  Second, you need mysql or oracle to run it.  
> > > > Fine for big universities, who usually have Oracle, but if you want 
> > > > an open source solution in your middleware as well as user 
> > > > applications not so fine.  Mysql also costs money, and is not a 
> > > > comparable (not as good) database to either Oracle or postgresql.  
> > > > second, it does not provide an audit trail, no content approval, 
> > > > requires use of LDAP for authentication, admin is not notified of 
> > > > problems, does not run under SSL, has no commercial certification 
> > > > or documentation, no online help, does not provide a structure for 
> > > > third party developer add-ins, no drag and drop content, no undo, 
> > > > no advanced caching, no database replication, no content staging, 
> > > > no affiliate tracking, no deployment as a package, no way to trash 
> > > > old content, no web statistics, no web based translation 
> > > > management, no workflow engine, no ftp support (even scp), is not 
> > > > WAI compliant, no webdav support, not xhtml compliant, no cgi 
> > > > support, no interface localization, not metadata support, is not 
> > > > multi-lingual, or wiki aware.  no chat, no classifieds.  No contact 
> > > > management,  no data entry, no database reports, no groupware, no 
> > > > guest book, no bug reporting/help desk, no HTTP proxy, no surveys, 
> > > > no tests/quizzes.  The keyword here is NO!
> > > >
> > > > One of schoolforge's affiliates was totally trashed last weekend by 
> > > > a porn marketeer who placed 2500 links to porn sites in the 
> > > > comments section of every artricle about school software.  This is 
> > > > why content approval and moderation is so important in your 
> > > > software, especially in grade schools.  Also, one would want to 
> > > > audit who does what on your site, because trashing your site with 
> > > > porn in the US is a felony.
> > > > Daniel Guermeur wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello all,
> > > > >
> > > > > Just to announce that Metadot Portal Server software has a new 
> > > > > university user: MIT.
> > > > > Metadot is used by numerous schools and university including 
> > > > > Berkeley, Pace and many orders for their intranet, extranet or 
> > > > > organization websites. Metadot provides content management, 
> > > > > collaboration and portal (like My Yahoo) functionality. The key 
> > > > > differentiator is the extreme ease of use so that non technical 
> > > > > users can manage the content without asking their busy IT person 
> > > > > to help.
> > > > >
> > > > > See live sites at:
> > > > > http://www.metadot.com/index.pl?id=2528
> > > > >
> > > > > Daniel
> > > > > --
> > > > > Daniel Guermeur - daniel@metadot.com
> > > > > www.metadot.com - Be Part Of The Open Source Revolution