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Re: SEUL: SEUL duplicating efforts?

> No.  Setting up the mouse and keyboard are not a part of X config.  The mouse
> and keyboard are setup at the console config level.  You simply need to

sorry... yes, I got this wrong. The mouse could(should?)  be set up before
any Xconfig program starts. It fires up on the console when GPM starts
(duh! I knew that :-> )

> - -> hence the discussion concerning xdm. But hey, what about my menu based
> - -> 'shell' which 
> - -> (a) just requires you to select and hit return (much like
> - -> point-and-click except not as pretty) and 
> The point is that this "not as pretty" aspect falsely conveys the opinion of
> "not as good" to these types of users.  This pops up on the screen and a
> grimace pop's up on their face.

I think this has been dealt with in another leg of this thread, the bottom
line being that the GUI should be used in place of any console-shell where

> - -> (b) allows you to change the initial run level to 5 (XDM) once the display
> - -> is set up ? relying on being able to boot into a graphical shell does seem
> - -> like risky business... 
> I don't think runlevels should even be visable to the user, unless they are
> veterans.

The beginner just knows that XDM is either on or off. They don't need to
understand it to use it. Still, the most promising ideas we've heard look
like this run level 5 + consoles running as "emergency exits"/diagnostic
> Booting into a graphical environment doesn't have to be risky at all.
Not if care is taken to eliminate the risks. After the other response to
my message, (the idea that xdm is fired up with consoles going as a way
out of the 'loop of death') , I'd say I agree with you.

> The main problem I've noticed in setting up X is that there is the immediate
> attempt to setup X for your hardware.  This is the wrong approach for a
> green-horn.  They should be forced into the generic setup known to work on
> nearly every hardware combination in existance.  Then work their way up to
> optimal config.

not a bad idea. Something like the 16 color VGA or mono server to begin
with. Then they can play later. The other issue is that configuring a
modem is (currently) near impossible without a GUI. W can put modems in
another thread. The GUI makes so many things easy that a 'get some windows
there at all costs' approach has its merits...

> There are ways around this, such as xvidtune.  Maybe lame but they are there.

Problem: if the display is (a) rolling like crazy or (b) simply blanked
out, yu can't even do much with this (you can't even see where to click )
I have had precisely this problem trying to install for a friend who's
monitor had a personality.

>  If the user is forced into a basic server until his hardware is set to
> optimum config we should have little to no problem keeping them in a graphic
> environment.

An interesting angle. The chance of a vga or mono server failing seems
very slim (I certainly haven't seen or heard of it...)

-- Donovan