Re: EDU Distro - was Re: [seul-edu] Linux in Elementry

[Ben Armstrong <synrg@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca>]

On Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 01:43:55PM -0700, Samuel Hart wrote:
> Speaking from experience, most of the people actually installing software in 
> school districts are really just teachers who have had a week (or two) course 
> in computer basics (usually amounting to "this is how you turn it on", "here 
> are some apps you can use"). These are (typically) overworked, underpaid 
> staff who have more important things to worry about (like grading papers and 
> preping lessons) and do not have the skills (or the time to learn those 
> skills) to install even the most simple thing.

So maybe that's where I really depart from your model.  I think this
situation really sucks.  I'm also willing to go into the schools and
volunteer my time, just as parents volunteer in many other areas.  If my
school decided they wanted to use Linux, I'd help them plan it, set it
up, and maintain it afterwards.  The fact that Windows and Mac school
labs often *don't* have people to do this means that once they're set
up, they sit there being used for very little, or they get used often,
but kids and teachers alike are often frustrated and just throw up their
hands in the air when something goes wrong.  "It's just like that.  It
breaks everytime we do that."

> Now, not even Woody's new UI installer will be simple enough for the average 
> educator (and I'm not saying their dumb, I'm just saying they have too many 
> other things to worry about to spend time to learn how). So what I am saying 
> is needed is a few pre-configured choices for a number of different needs.

That's what I'm saying too.  We just differ on implementation details.

> > Necessarily GUI?
> 
> Yeah, unfortunately.
> 
> I sat down my wife's teachers assistant at a terminal once so she could 
> access her e-mail... and even tho it was very straight forward, she was 
> totally confused and stressed by the lack of a GUI.
> 
> (It seems to me, and this is just an observation, that no matter how 
> straight-forward you make a text UI, the sheer fact it is text-based can 
> really stress non-computer people out.)

Then you will stress them out afterwards.  A GUI front-end for a Linux
install is only addressing that first week of setup.  That's not where
it ends with a Linux system.  You'll have to be able to maintain it
afterwards, and I'm not convinced that just slapping a flashy GUI on the
front-end is going to help much.  You need to know about
troubleshooting, bug report writing, and simple tasks like reading the
"changes" mailing list and applying security patches and major bugfixes
and so forth.  Basically, if you're going to parachute Linux into the
schools and then cut them adrift with an "easy to use" install, never to
render technical assistance to them again, I think you do them a *great*
disservice.  If you're going to give them Linux, for heaven's sake, give
it to them with some proper technical support.

> >But again, who wouldn't
> > want a "simpler to install" Debian?  If you have some good ideas as to
> > how to do that, why not work with Debian to get them into the
> > distribution proper?
> 
> Yeah, I think people would. But the sort of ease I'm talking about comes at a 
> great price most Debian users wouldn't want: You loose control during install.

Will it really?  I don't think so.  Newbies are expected to use tasksel,
whereas "power users" are expected to use dselect.  So, you see, nobody
in Debian is saying that we need to keep all this flexibility and
control at the expense of users who want it simpler.  Also, the whole
point of debconf's priority levels (critical, high, medium, low) is that
the user gets to choose how much they are bothered with the intimate
details of configuring their system.  The package maintainers are
supposed to pick "sane" default behaviours for their packages to reduce
the amount of dialogue the user (installer) of the system must deal
with.  But I prefer to set debconf's priority to "low" so that other
questions that package maintainers thought I might like to have at
install time show up.  Finally, debconf has a number of different
interfaces, including a GUI one, so I don't really see what the problem
is.  Just build on this model.

Ben
-- 
    nSLUG       http://www.nslug.ns.ca      synrg@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca
    Debian      http://www.debian.org       synrg@debian.org
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