Older Equiptment

[Michael A Hamblin <michaelh@utdallas.edu>]

On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Hans Sittler wrote:

> I am responding to this message because I also think that there's a 
> lot of older equipment that I can get donated and that would work 
> well if configured as terminals.

Most of this came from a private letter I wrote last night and as yet it
is still kinda clunky.  Anyway here goes :)

ELKS - Embedded Linux Kernel Subset
Could this be used to implement programs on older machines?
Boot disk NFS mounts a partition with ELKS-specific binaries
Student logs in and is presented with a 'bbs' lynx bsed interface
Locally running software
 -pine (email, bb's, and news... oh the joys of Cyrus IMAPd)
 -ftp? (transfer files from floppies and ZIP disks)
 -telnet
 -chat programs?
 -lynx - allow a simple interface to cgi-bsaed apps
  Remember that lynx does not neccessarily have to run black and white
If Xfree86 supports really old cards (hercules) maybe some of the older
machines will be able to run X mono, pull X off another machine.

Unfortunatly, after looking into it, ELKS currently does not have a
working networking subsystem. Netiher is there a distribution. That does
not preclude it's use of course, but so little is working in it that it is
not viable at this time.  It will run in 128k of RAM (although 512k is
reccommended minimum I believe). If development is continuing then maybe
this will be a viable option in the future.

I don't know where they are, but it may be possible to toss together a
TCP/IP stack and NE-whatever driver from the main Linux kernel, which
would then make some of this possible. Someone would have to get in
contact with the ELKS development group, which would probably be
interested in what is going on in this list.

Make an old PC an Xterm (from a 386/486)
http://www.linuxhq.com/lg/issue27/kaszeta.html
 -run window manager locally if possible
 -run programs off a server
 -alternative Web browser to Netscape (too heavy for a lab of clients)
  QNX's web browser is very light and designed for embedded systems.
  Unfortunatly it is not Linux, GPL, or easily obtainable.
  Gzilla? Is that still being developed?  would it be light enough?
  KFM and KDE's html widget? Very light, would that be a solution?
chooser might could use a rewrite (see the URL to know what chooser is)

Using DOS to support a Linux server (for situations where you might want
to limit availablility of local apps, do reinstalls quick, or where
hardware will not support Linux)
There are TCP/IP packages for DOS, however I haven't been able to find a
free one. Although I am certain they do exist.
Packages/comapnies I know of with TCP/IP utilities
 LAN Manager (IBM)
 Novell
 Sun Microsystems
The obvious problem is these won't be free. Considering the lack of
interest in DOS these days, perhaps the companies would be willing to work
out a more flexible and cost-effective liscence.
Now we're talking about the same sort of software that we thought of
running under ELKS.
 telnet and ftp two main programs
 Xappeal - DOS X server
 Text-based FTP software for DOS that's not CLI
There are definatly more packages available, but finding them is a trick.

Windows 3.11 options? Since a machine capable of running Windows 3.11
should be capable of running Linux, I consider this not an option. However
some teachers may still be unwilling to part with their 486-33 Microsoft
Office training lab. Issues with Windows 3.11 are similiar to those of
Macintoshes running MacOS.
 How to configure winsocks / Macintosh sockets
 Need to find a good telnet client.  They exist, to be sure
 X clients?  Macintoshes may be able to run MI/X, anything fancier would
 have to be purchased I'm afraid
Other than that I'm not sure there's much more you can do.

Apple ]['s: could they be used as Terminals? What might be required is a
serial connection to a bridge, and then they could be used in 80 column
mode as basically WYSE terminals, if the software to run them like that
can be found.

WYSE terminals: New, the lowest models are hundreds of dollars. Best
option would be to buy a Cyrix GX complete system with 14" monitor for
$449 and save yourself about $50 over the WYSE term. Looking for WYSE
terms at hardware swaps has proven completly unfruitful speaking for
myself. I can get WYSE keyboards and WYSE displays but not the whole unit.
I keep hearing rumors of HAM fests having them for $20 a piece (SCORE!),
but no dice as yet.

BBS configurations
Older computers could be used with modems (14.4 or slower as many older
machines will have 8250 UARTs, not the faster 16550's) to interface a BBS
Linux-based system.
Server Configuration
 - How do we configure mgetty to accept dialins from modems?
 - acua and adbbs are two packages that allow perl scripting of BBS menus
   and time restrictions for connection time
 - lynx can be made into a BBS type interface easily
   Recompile lynx with 'lynxprog' URL support
   http://www.ductape.net/info/index.html for an example, this is the page
   I'm planning on using on ductape.net for a simple interface to common
   utilities (pine, etc.)
 - sz and rz and even kermit would have to be set up
 - Of course we would still be able to allow shells! :)
 - How would you go about setting up a server with a bank of modems to
   answer phone lines?  I know of a device called a 'digiboard' that
   allows that sort of thing.
 - slirp or ppp may be an option, although obviously some schools wouldn't
   want to allow that either by liscencing or resource limitations
 - A bunch of 14.4's or 9600 would probably do the trick. Maintaining
   modems is not an easy task however.
Client Configuration
 - Dialer... haven't done BBS stuff in a while, what options? Obviously
   would have to support ANSI and VT100.  Perhaps a port of 'minicom' to
   DOS would be in order.
 - Modem, again 14.4 or 9600 is more than adequate
 - If DOS is used on the client machines, perhaps some of the DOS
   newsgroups would have info of use.

386/486 systems (maybe even 286) can be upgraded with the Cyrix MediaGX
based motherboards. 133MHz models have been selling for $99 too well, and
now I can't find anything less than a 233MHz model for about $179. While I
generally dislike the idea of having all functions on the motherboard, it
turns out to be quite advantageous.
 No IRQ/DMA problems
 Inexpensivly take a not even MPC1 complaiant machine to a multimedia
 system in one step: Sound, IDE, Video functions integrated.  Plug the
 board in the case, hook up the floppy/HDs and the external components,
 start it up and if your cables are hooked up right, it will boot the
 first time.
 Latest Xfree86 supports the MediaGX video system directly
Also there is the AMD upgrade route, although I don't have the info on it.
While we're talking about upgrades, hardware is cheap these days if you
are willing to use used hardware. In the Dallas area if I do some digging
around for a week or two I can turn up a 1Gb hard drive for $20. Mention
that you are trying to upgrade PCs in a school and people may be more
willing to help. As usual when doing upgrades with eductaional equiptment,
get in touch with the local Linux User Group for their support. If you
play your cards right you may get them to do all the upgrade work, or
someone may know of someone tossing out lots of old equiptment and needs a
tax write-off.

Most of the options I have listed basically involve taking older machines
and turning them into terminals. While that's all fine and dandy I'm sure
there are better options for at least some equiptment. What they are
though I don't know.

Hehehe it may seem insane trying to find solutions for all this old
hardware, but this is maximizing your educational dollar :)  I am
optimistic about the options available for older hardware to interact with
Linux. Tracking stuff down however has become a real challenge, as at my
University most everyone has converted to Windows 95 (NT conversion) and
few techs know of the options for internetworking in old DOS environments,
etc. However our University does have the same issues other organizations
do (although I've totally ignored Y2K compliance... that's often a
luxury). Unix admins are trying to get more text-terminals to replace the
dying WYSE terminals in the general student Unix lab, and the best option
has been to install Solaris x86 on about 20 PCs and set them up to
interface with the Sun Enterprise servers. 

I am definatly continuing this project to find solutions for older
hardware.  I'm not going to give up here just because I have found very
good options for upgrading :) I also have a lot of other paths to research
but for time and already racking my brain trying to remember I haven't got
them here.

In case anyone had any ideas about me thinking I am crazy about low end
hardware think again... ductape.net is running on a P2 300 (Celeron A),
and if you think I'm not versed in other platforms I have used HP
workstations and Sun workstations, as well as owning a NeXT Cube and a DEC
UDB (Alpha)... just can't having people think I love 286 technology :)

With all this inventory moving around, an Inventory Managment system would
be in order as well ;)

--
Michael Hamblin            http://www.utdallas.edu/~michaelh/
michaelh@utdallas.edu      http://www.ductape.net/
UTD Linux User Group       TCS HelpDesk (x2911, assist@utdallas.edu)