Re: [seul-edu] [Fwd: Debian-kids goals (draft)]

["SPECTRE" <SPECTRE@harry-carlton.notts.sch.uk>]

Sounds cool, I have some web space available, if needed, the domain is
www.nllinux.co.uk, also, Freenetname 'www.freenetname.co.uk' gives away
free domain names, but you have to use their dialup access, :(

Fran

----------
> From: Randy Edwards <redwards@golgotha.net>
> To: SEUL-EDU@seul.org
> Subject: [seul-edu] [Fwd: Debian-kids goals (draft)]
> Date: 12 February 2000 17:29
> 
>    I'm guessing that everyone's familiar with Debian GNU/Linux, the
> militantly free, non-commercial distribution of Linux (if you aren't
> familiar with it, get over to <http://www.debian.org> and fix that
> problem:-).  Lately there's been a lot of discussion on the Debian
> developer's mailing list about creating a version of Debian aimed at
kids.
> 
>    Enclosed below is a forwarded message from the debian-devel mailing
list
> (it's a public list, feel free to drop by the Debian web site and sign up
> for it if you'd like) from Ben Armstrong, summarizing the idea(s) and
> seeking some clarification.  I thought you might find it of interest:
> 
> Ben Armstrong <synrg@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca> wrote:
> > 
> > I'd like to get a mailing list for the nascent debian-kids group and
some
> > web space up as soon as possible, so please read & comment on the
> > following, as this document will be the basis of the welcome message to
> > the group and will appear on the web site to help members inside and
> > outside the group to determine what we're here for and where we're
headed.
> > 
> > These are the goals of debian-kids, as I interpret them from the points
> > that have been raised so far from the recent discussion on
debian-devel.
> > Some of these were my original suggested goals while others were
suggested
> > by the comments of those who contributed to the discussion.  All of
them
> > are my own subjective and personal view of what has been discussed, so
if
> > I'm missing or misrepresenting some points, please provide constructive
> > criticism.
> > 
> > Please try to keep your comments focused on the goals themselves and
not
> > on implementations to meet these goals.  I have furnished some possible
> > implementations, but these are not to be taken as definitive, and serve
> > merely to illustrate and clarify the goals.
> > 
> > I think it is as important to state what our goals are *not* as it is
> > what they are.  So be thinking along these lines as well.
> > 
> > Making Debian desirable to kids
> > -------------------------------
> > The primary goal of the debian-kids project is to make Debian an OS our
> > kids *want* to run.  This involves some sensitivity to the needs of
kids
> > as expressed by the children themselves.  As parents, developers, and
sys
> > admins, we need to keep our ears and eyes open and discover what it is
> > that makes computers desirable to kids.  Without this focus, we can
easily
> > get sidetracked trying to achieve abstract goals like "user
friendliness",
> > "simplicity", "low maintenance", or "robustness" that, while they are
> > certainly laudable goals for Debian as a whole, are too broad for
> > addressing the specific needs and wants of kids.
> > 
> > Working with other kid-oriented free software projects
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Other projects already exist (e.g. [1]SEUL/edu, [2]Kids Games, and
> > [3]LinuxForKids)  that have goals which overlap and dovetail with our
own.
> > Rather than duplicate their effort, we need to work with these groups
to
> > ensure that Debian makes the best use of their work, and makes
> > contributions back to those efforts of our own.  Debian-kids should
stay
> > focused on (but not limited to) Debian-specific goals.  Individuals
from
> > Debian-kids are encouraged to join these other groups as time and
interest
> > allow.
> > 
> > [ Note, links for the above sites are:
> >   1. http://www.seul.org/edu
> >   2. http://www.smluc.org/SIA/kidsgames/
> >   3. http://www.linuxforkids.com
> > ]
> > 
> > Applications
> > ------------
> > Naturally, children have different needs and wants from adults in the
> > applications they chose to run.  Some of these will be games, while
others
> > will be word processors, text editors, "paint" programs, and the like.
> > The goal is to identify applications within Debian that are suitable
for
> > kids and add to that number by packaging ones not yet in Debian.  A
> > possible implementation goal would be to provide "task-" packages to
make
> > installing groups of "kid friendly" applications easier for the
parent/sys
> > admin. run.  A subgoal is to take existing packages that might be
suitable
> > for kids with a bit of extra work and help "polish" them to make them
> > "kid friendly", which could be as simple as filling in holes in the
> > documentation, or adding entries to the menu system for easy access.
> > 
> > Kidproofing and account management
> > ----------------------------------
> > The idea here is not to necessarily to implement tough security
measures.
> > That is beyond our mandate.  The goal is simply to provide
> > parent/administrators with documentation and tools for setting up their
> > systems so that their naturally curious child users will not "break"
their
> > accounts, soak up all system resources, or otherwise do things that
> > require constant sys admin intervention.  This is a more of a concern
for
> > child users than adults, as they tend to explore and deliberately push
the
> > system to the limits just to see what happens.  The messes that result
can
> > be at once both amusing and frustrating.  This goal is about keeping
your
> > sanity (and sense of humor) as a kids' sys admin.
> > 
> > Learning to use the computer
> > ----------------------------
> > The "Kidproofing" goal needs to be balanced with the goal of *allowing*
> > kids to try things (and yes, break things) and find solutions to their
> > problems.  Learning to use the keyboard, GUI, shell, and computer
> > languages are all things that parents and children alike need some tips
to
> > help get them headed in the right direction.
> > 
> > User interface
> > --------------
> > Discover and implement both GUI and text-based interfaces that work
well
> > for and are attractive to children.  The idea is not to re-invent the
user
> > interface, but to add value to existing tools and packages (window
> > managers, menu system and so forth) by providing some convenient
> > pre-selected configurations that we find work best for kids.
> > 
> > Parental guidance
> > -----------------
> > Give parents the tools to help their kids learn about computers and to
put
> > reasonable limits on their access, guiding them towards independent use
of
> > the computer as they mature.  For example, many parents will be
concerned
> > about regulating Internet use to protect their children until they
reach a
> > suitable age to deal with mature content.  The important thing to
remember
> > is that the parents will chose what they think is best for their kids.
> > The debian-kids group does not make this judgement, but is there to
help
> > provide the tools and documentation to help the parents with these
> > decisions.
> > 
> > Kids' System
> > ------------
> > While our first goal as parents will probably be to set up the kids
with
> > accounts on our own systems and populate it with applications that they
> > enjoy, there comes a time when we contemplate getting them their own
> > system.  The most ambitious realization of this goal might be a Debian
> > software equivalent of the "toy" computers currently on the market:
> > brightly colored, decal-covered systems pre-loaded with kids software. 
It
> > is important to keep in perspective that this would still be a Debian
> > system, not some fork from the Debian distribution.  It is a perfectly
> > achievable goal through the Debian package management system (via
"task-"
> > pacakages, for example) and should not require a fork in development to
> > produce a special Debian "kids' edition".
> > 
> > Ports
> > -----
> > There are lots of excellent applications out there for kids that we
wish
> > would be ported to Linux.  We can help move the process along by first,
> > demonstrating that Debian is a viable platform for kids by the work of
> > this project, and second, by our individual and collective efforts to
> > petition software vendors and authors to make ports of their products
> > for Linux.  If they can be convinced to open source their software at
> > the same time, so much the better.
> > 
> > Marketing & PR
> > --------------
> > [ Note, this wasn't brought up in discussion, but it occurs to me now
> >   that this shortly become an issue that needs some attending to. ]
> > Once we have something to show for this project, and indeed even in the
> > formative stages of this project we are being watched by the eyes of
the
> > world (I have already received one private email from a member of the
> > press).  We will necessarily want to work with debian-press to get the
> > word out and to help give Debian and this project the kind of exposure
we
> > want.  I know many of us as developers are oblivious to such concerns,
or
> > even loath to be involved with such things, but if we don't keep this
goal
> > in mind from the outset, we're giving up this role to others who may
not
> > understand or accurately represent what we're about.
> > 
> > Ben
> > --
> >     nSLUG       http://www.nslug.ns.ca      synrg@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca
> >     Debian      http://www.debian.org       synrg@debian.org
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4F ]
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13C8 ]
> > 
> > --
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> -- 
>  Regards, | Do you like browing the web, independent of whatever
>  .        | type of computer you are talking to on the other end?
>  Randy    | "Enhancements" to public standards and protocols is the
>           | way the WWW will be turned into a proprietary nightmare.