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RE: Re: [seul-edu] Perl for 9th graders]

I'd second that--programming languages I was exposed to (in order) were C64
basic, then Apple Basic, then QBASIC, TI-Calc Basic (TI-82 / TI-85 graphing
calculators), Pascal, COBOL, C, Motorola 68000 Assembly, Intel Assembly,
C++, php (I know some might not consider php a language)..and finally

Of course, in school, there was a lot of other stuff that I learned either
through coursework or volunteer work, including dealing with sysadmin
duties on both the Unix and Windows (9x, NT, 2000) platforms, doing web /
web application design and development, as well as Project Manager
equivalent positions and high-level management.

Surprisingly enough--since I enjoy web work, I work as part of an internal
corporate Application Support Group for Network Telephone, on two products
that are almost entirely based off of a combination of Unix and
Oracle--both of which I managed to get pretty solid experience on while
attending UWF in Pensacola, FL.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nbarne - Nathan Barnes [mailto:nbarne@acxiom.com]
>Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 1:00 PM
>To: 'seul-edu@seul.org'
>Subject: RE: Re: [seul-edu] Perl for 9th graders]
>> -----Original Message-----
>--*snip, snip*-- (content edited for space)  %^)
>> > > > > A student came to me yesterday and said he thinks he needs 
>> > > > > to learn some Linux, especially Perl.
>> > > 
>> > > First, I think it is awesome that a teacher is going out of their way
>> > > assist this student learn what they want to learn. Bravo!
>--*snip, snip*--
>> > > All that said, I would strongly recommend that if this is the
>> > > first programming language, it might be prudent to point the student
>> > > towards a language that is not so, how do I put this, Frankenstein
>> > > :). Perl, in many ways, takes the best features of several programming
>> > > languages and mixes them together in a very powerful way. But an
>> > > argument could be made that it's nowhere close to appropriate for a
>> > > first language. 
>I agree with this, too.  Perl and C are the two languages that I use most
>frequently in my day to day work, but I wouldn't recommend either one as a
>first introduction to programming.  This is the order in which I was
>introduced to my first few programming languages, and it worked pretty well
>for me:
>LOGO (wonderful for elementary students)
>Pascal (Junior High, maybe High School)
>C++ (If Java had been available, I think it would have been a better intro
>to OO.)
>...(a couple of specialized languages)...
>Sadly, LOGO and Pascal are sort of out of date now, especially on a Linux
>system.  Maybe Python (with a "turtle graphics" module) and Ada would work
>> > Students may be create a Frankenstein program only using PERL
>> > too... And I discord about PERL has "best features of several
>> > languages", if this is correct, where is OOP support?
>Perl has an interesting and effective style of OO support, and learning OO
>Perl can provide special insight into the way that OO works in general, but
>I CERTAINLY wouldn't recommend it as a first OO language!  Its style is a
>bit too free and open.  A beginner could learn a lot of bad habits very
>> > > I've heard good things about python as a good, powerful first
>> > > and java would likely be a good choice as well, as in many ways it was
>> > > written from scratch as an OOP language. Pascal is not exactly used in
>> > > reality commonly, but is an excellent introduction to structured,
>> > > function based programming.
>Python would be a good first language for students in seventh grade and up.
>I haven't seen any good introductory programming texts with Python yet,
>though.  The standard distribution's tutorial is pretty good for learning
>the language, but probably not for learning programming in general.  I
>haven't been looking for such a book though.  It may be out there.
>--*snip, snip*--
>Nathan Barnes