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Re: Debian Corporation.


On 03-Mar-98 Erik Walthinsen wrote:
- -> Finances:
- -> 
- -> I will say, however, that I would have no problems with being salaried to 
- -> lead SEUL.  If the opportunity presented itself for me to work on SEUL full 
- -> time, I'd go for it.  I would, however, make certain that the majority of 
- -> said salary would go towards SEUL work (some would go, for instance, to 
- -> tuition).  However, such a situation is unlikely.

Sure.  I would do the same.  My point about Bruce is that people seem to think
he has nothing to gain, personally, since Debian is free and is therefore
trustworthy.  His actions speak for themselves.  He obviously DOES have
something to gain.

Bruce is shrewd.  He puts me in mind of another software demon whom everybody
praised and granted the benefit of the doubt until it was too late.  Of course,
Bruce would NEVER do anything...Bruce is not even close to being like... blah
blah blah.  The man has made his fist mistake.  He will most likely try to
cover it up now.  He doesn't want anybody to see him comming until it's too

- -> Tactics:
- -> 
- -> Bruce's attempt at splitting this project in two was sickening.  I read 
- -> that and just sat there dazed for 15min trying to figure it out.  I still 
- -> haven't.

I think you have.  They say the universal language is math, we would even be
able to speak to aliens using it.  2 + 2 = 4 

- -> When jfm first posted his resignation and critique of the project, I 
- -> e-mailed Bruce asking about a proposal I had mailed him a week previous.  
- -> The proposal suggested that a list be created with the leaders of all the 
- -> major distributions, project, and commercial entities.  This list would be 
- -> responsible for coordinating effort at a high level, such as arranging the 
- -> best way to help the GNOME project, given Debian and RHAD's involvement.  
- -> Another important goal would be to coordinate (20 or so) existing advocacy
- -> efforts into an uber-project that could finally have some impact in the
- -> commercial world.

Don't be too supprised if Bruce does this himself.

- -> His response was to tell me that "while _I_ am willing to listen, people
- -> in other projects will not consider you an equal", and to be considered 
- -> even close to equal we would have to produce something.  In effect, he 
- -> denied that such a list would be useful, on the grounds that I'm unknown.  
- -> HUH???

Sure.  He'll listen. ):-D

- -> "I think it would be best for both projects if we terminate the Debian
- -> involvement with SEUL. We will initiate our own ease-of-use projects
- -> and get them done quickly without all of this talk."

It wouldn't look right if he initiated your plan while still involved.  Now, he
can say "they had some really good ideas, but lacked the ability to initiate
them.  I felt I could best serve Linux by doing so myself."

- -> From this I have concluded that, for all his facade of cooperation and 
- -> understanding, he does not want to work with anyone unless it serves his 
- -> (or Debian's) purpose.  What makes it difficult is that it is very unclear 
- -> what his purpose is.  It seems to me that he wants to run the SPI and make 
- -> strategic alliances where he can effectively take over and assimilate.

Yyuppers, Johnny!

- -> Goals:
- -> 
- -> He told me when we first talked on IRC that he wanted to see Debian become 
- -> the basis for distributions, more than just a distribution in itself.  The
- -> Core/Layers idea was already forming in my head when we talked, and it 
- -> solidified when he mentioned this.  I figured that he would embrace the 
- -> idea, and that the aforementioned list would be the logical vehicle in which
- -> to develop this.  I was wrong.

He either wants to steal the idea, and as a result become larger than Linus and
FSF, or he already planned it and didn't like you threatening his position. 
Seeing as the GNOME project proudly announced that "Bruce is back" I would say
he's stealing the idea.

Bruce is involved in several key projects in the Linux comunity and also
sponsoring some of them and allowing some to use "Debians" systems, which are
donated to Debian, I find that amusing.

It's plain to me that he's positioning himself.  He wants to convince us that
he's just very pro-Linux blah blah blah.  I think he sees a chance to use
others, working for free, to build an empire.

How much further would BG be now if all his software was given to him for free?
 Actually, how would BG do things if he were in Bruce's position?  I really
think Bruce is using M$ as a template for Debian, adjusted for the GPL.

I'll ask this again.  If Bruce has nothing to gain why didn't he step down as
president when he stepped down as project leader?  He doesn't have to be
president to make his work count in the best interests od Debian and Linux. 
The only thing it does is insure that he has control of Debian and it's

To hear Bruce, and sadly, George, being the president is nothing more than a
burden on Bruce and we should all praise him for putting up with it.  I say

When Bruce stepped down I emailed him personally and asked about the situation.
 He told me that he didn't step down as project leader because of the user that
harrassed him, that was just a coincidence.  He stepped down because it gave
him more time to be the president where he could do more to further Debian.

The Red Hat people are doing it right.  They put out their product and make
money on it.  They don't make it such that it's beyond the monitary abilities
of the masses.  That is acceptable.  Caldera, is another story.  But Bruce is
lining himself/Debian up to blitz the Linux community and really don't like it.

I gave him the bennefit of the doubt whilst watching him.  He could have just
been involved.  After the attempt to steal our developers, I have no doubts any

It was bound to happen sooner or later.

- ---
E-Mail: Cyberdyn@seul.org       Date: 03-Mar-98        Time: 17:14:59
People say I live in my own little fantasy world... well, at least they
*know* me there!
                -- D.L. Roth

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