While discussing proposal 247 with George yesterday, we realized that we still get security benefit from additional ephemeral hops beyond the vanguards themselves. Recall the high-level 247 path design is: C - L - M - S -- S - M - L - H Where: C = Client L = Long lived Layer1 guard M = Medium lifespan Layer2 guard S = Short lifespan Layer3 guard H = Hidden Service (or hsdir) E = Ephemeral Hop (used below) I = Intro Point (used below) R = Rend Point (used below) The benefit to just one more hop is easiest to see in the Introduction Point case, where George and I reasoned that it probably is a good idea to pick an intro point that is not the same as the Layer3 (S) set, otherwise the hidden service is effectively publishing its Layer3 guards in its descriptor, and using those same nodes to connect to rendezvous points. Clients probably also do not want the multi-visit linkability of using their layer3 vanguards to directly connect to an HS intro point. This means the intro circuit becomes: C - L - M - S - E -- I - S - M - L - H Similarly, in the rend case, hidden services probably do not want to expose their Layer3 (S) guards quite so easily to a client's chosen Rendezvous Point, and again, the client probably does not want to use their Layer3 (S) guards as its Rendezvous point, to avoid visit linkability. This means we again have 8 hops for rends: C - L - M - S - R -- E - S - M - L - H Unfortunately, this is starting to get ridiculous. While there are clear security benefits here, I think 8 hops is definitely at the point where we can forget about voice and other interactive traffic behaving reasonably. So what could we cut, if we wanted to? Well, going back to the Prop247 threat model, we want the adversary to perform at least two attacks: a Sybil and one or mode node compromise attacks. So maybe we can (in some cases, or optionally?) eliminate the M nodes from the path. Since the linkability risks may be acceptable for some applications, maybe we can also optionally allow clients or servers to omit the ephemeral hop. This basically gives us three options for path lengths. Let's consider each path type: Hsdir post/fetch: 1. C - L - M - S - E - H 2. C - L - S - E - H 3. C - L - S - H Intro: 1. C - L - M - S - E -- I - S - M - L - H 2. C - L - S - E -- I - S - L - H *3. C - L - S -- I&S - L - H (* IP Intersection attack!) Rend: 1. C - L - M - S - R -- E - S - M - L - H 2. C - L - S - R -- E - S - L - H 3. C - L - R&S -- S - L - H Looking at these, we can see that we sacrifice the middle guards in the second option, which will come at the cost of one less compromise attack (but still the need to compromise the long-lived guard). We also lose the unlinkability in the third option, and this actually bites us in Intro 3: the hidden service L guard can perform a long-term intersection attack, watching for published intro points and matching that to the circuits that H makes to them. So that path length probably should not be used. But what about the others? Especially that Rend case? I really like the security properties of the full 8 hop paths, but it seems to me that for highly-interactive applications, we can provide the option for users to give up some of the unlinkability in exchange for that 4 hop circuit, which might actually allow for e2e hidden service voice and video to have a shot at working. Are there any risks with paths this short for that case? Does it make sense to provide users with these different path length and latency options? I'm thinking that the service could list its preferred path length in its hsdesc, and the client could override that as it chooses (either for more or less security). Is that dangerous? We were already considering letting users choose their guard set sizes. Why not path lengths also (or instead)? -- Mike Perry
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