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Re: [tor-talk] tor project website change

I think the website is good, I felt before that it left out newcomers that
didn't know what torbrowser was already, so much was going on that it would
confuse people that just have heard others mention tor browser and want to
check it out.

I think there is still space for more nerdy pages and I think anyone is
allowed to create such a page if they want +1

The only thing I am missing is some call to actions for different parts of
the website when you have done scrolling to the bottom of the page 😄

-Kevin


On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 4:17 PM Lee <ler762@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> On 4/3/19, blacklight447@xxxxxxxxxxxx <blacklight447@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Pretty sure this guy is just trolling and baiting at this point
>
> It looks more like frustration to me
> >> The last actual use case warning or disclaimer on torproject.org
> >> was removed by or on October 10 2010.
>
> Starting at  https://www.torproject.org/
>   Browse Privately.
>   - with no caveats.
>   BLOCK TRACKERS
>   - except they aren't actually blocked, just isolated.  right?
>   DEFEND AGAINST SURVEILLANCE
>   - I suspect tor is a better defense than using a vpn but still...
> with no warnings or caveats it seems a bit much.
>   RESIST FINGERPRINTING
>   - yay!  "Tor Browser aims to ..."  a reasonable claim.
>
> But wait!  There's more!!
>
> Click on the 'Download Tor Browser' link & go to
> https://www.torproject.org/download/
> Click on the 'Download Tor Browser' link on that page and get sent to
> "../download/" but that's where I was, so wtf?  Maybe I need
> javascript enabled??
>
> There's also a link for "Verify Tor Browser signature" but no link to
> the signature file.
>
> At least the "Download in another language" link gets me to a page
> where I can download tbb and the sig.  It doesn't show which version
> will be downloaded, but it does have working links, so it's infinitely
> better than the download page.
>
> Lee
>
>
> > Apr 3, 2019, 10:47 AM by grarpamp@xxxxxxxxx:
> >
> >>> why adversaries should finance tor project and publicly it if they have
> >>> a malicious intent?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Why do adversaries do that to their opponents?
> >> Because it's a simple and effective diversion operation.
> >> Nor is it dependant upon whether any "malicious intent".
> >> Adversaries often fund their opponents to keep them busy and happy
> >> even if opponent only a few steps tangent behind the race to actually
> >> being able to kill the adversary. It can work actively...
> >> "Here's a pile and stream of money to develop some useless
> >> or thing we want in an RFP / contract / grant / employee",
> >> or passively... "Hey, those guys seem to be going down useless
> >> paths, ok here's a bunch of money to keep them happily digging
> >> in those holes, LOL." Usually delivered by false fronts.
> >> See also "regulatory capture" type of concept. Also how nice
> >> salaries and simple weight of self reinforcing mass inertia and
> >> groupthink over time can keep any one or group settled into the
> >> same thing, less dynamism, up to even not abandoning and starting
> >> out elsewhere due to simple risk aversion... "job food friends
> lifestyle."
> >>
> >>
> >> Is an entity, product, or network subject to whatever
> >> to some degree or other? Maybe, maybe not, others decide.
> >> Yet without talking about and analysing harder questions
> >> once in a while, especially as generations come and go,
> >> people might have less sense therein.
> >>
> >> If a site looks sexy it must be good, right?
> >> That's what at least marketers think, and it's perhaps good enough
> >> for browsing mundane TV news sites. Yet there's no frontpage
> >> splash disclaimer for others with more sensitive, vulnerable,
> >> or different use cases.
> >>
> >> Nor mention of Tor people hypocritically trying to censor ban
> >> nodes out of the consensus for, ironically, nothing more than
> >> excercising their right to free speech. Instead of say punting that
> >> out to meta analysis projects that users can choose to subscribe
> >> to as suits their own likes, support, and thinking therein.
> >>
> >> To be fair, no different than any other business (say ibm.com)
> >> or opensource project... finding much suitability disclaimer
> >> on anyone's pages, surely not without a good number of clicks,
> >> it's of less interest or natural to cover some potentially
> >> questionable areas, adversarial weaknesses, etc... it doesn't sell.
> >>
> >>
> >> Anyhow...
> >>
> >> The last actual use case warning or disclaimer on torproject.org
> >> was removed by or on October 10 2010. Some historical bisects..
> >>
> >> Site v1
> >> first, domain 1998-01-29
> >> http://web.archive.org/web/19981212031609/http://www.onion-router.net
> >> <http://web.archive.org/web/19981212031609/http://www.onion-router.net/
> >
> >>
> >> same content actually to "circa" 2006
> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20061023145713/http://www.onion-router.net
> >> <http://web.archive.org/web/20061023145713/http://www.onion-router.net/
> >
> >>
> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20130120133213/http://www.onion-router.net
> >> <http://web.archive.org/web/20130120133213/http://www.onion-router.net/
> >
> >> except for the gov diff
> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20130420093515/http://www.onion-router.net
> >> <http://web.archive.org/web/20130420093515/http://www.onion-router.net/
> >
> >>
> >> curr
> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20190228035625/http://www.onion-router.net
> >> <http://web.archive.org/web/20190228035625/http://www.onion-router.net/
> >
> >>
> >> Site v2
> >> first, domain 2006-10-17
> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20071011223019/http://www.torproject.org
> >> <http://web.archive.org/web/20071011223019/http://www.torproject.org/>
> >> last
> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20101003133226/http://www.torproject.org
> >> <http://web.archive.org/web/20101003133226/http://www.torproject.org/>
> >>
> >> Site v3
> >> first
> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20101010191937/http://www.torproject.org
> >> <http://web.archive.org/web/20101010191937/http://www.torproject.org/>
> >> last
> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20190326100059/https://www.torproject.org
> >> <http://web.archive.org/web/20190326100059/https://www.torproject.org/>
> >>
> >> Site v4
> >> first
> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20190327033924/https://www.torproject.org
> >> <http://web.archive.org/web/20190327033924/https://www.torproject.org/>
> >>
> >>
> >> Misc...
> >>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20041108031017/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
> >> <
> http://web.archive.org/web/20041108031017/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
> >
> >>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20070104070427/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
> >> <
> http://web.archive.org/web/20070104070427/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
> >
> >>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20100416102850/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
> >> <
> http://web.archive.org/web/20100416102850/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
> >
> >>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20110728115309/https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki
> >> <
> http://web.archive.org/web/20110728115309/https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>> what you said
> >>>
> >>
> >> It's really all junk lately, just delete it.
> >> --
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> >
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