Re: [tor-talk] tor project website change

[Lee <ler762@xxxxxxxxx>]

On 4/5/19, Kevin Simper <kevin.simper@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I think the website is good,

If they'd fix the download link on
https://www.torproject.org/download/ it would be a lot better.

> I felt before that it left out newcomers that
> didn't know what torbrowser was already, so much was going on that it would
> confuse people that just have heard others mention tor browser and want to
> check it out.

It seems to me that newcomers are the ones that most need warnings
instead of a blanket
   Protect yourself against tracking, surveillance, and censorship.

but I don't see anything there about tbb not defaulting to a safer config
  https://2019.www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en#TBBJavaScriptEnabled

and is this still be an open problem?
  https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/4x3qnj/how-the-nsa-or-anyone-else-can-crack-tors-anonymity

But tor needs 'covering traffic' and .. what?  They don't want to
scare people away?
  https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/07/dear-nsa-privacy-fundamental-right-not-reasonable-suspicion

> I think there is still space for more nerdy pages and I think anyone is
> allowed to create such a page if they want +1
>
> The only thing I am missing is some call to actions for different parts of
> the website when you have done scrolling to the bottom of the page 😄

I'm missing a link for downloading tor.

Regards,
Lee

>
> -Kevin
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 4:17 PM Lee <ler762@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> On 4/3/19, blacklight447@xxxxxxxxxxxx <blacklight447@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > Pretty sure this guy is just trolling and baiting at this point
>>
>> It looks more like frustration to me
>> >> The last actual use case warning or disclaimer on torproject.org
>> >> was removed by or on October 10 2010.
>>
>> Starting at  https://www.torproject.org/
>>   Browse Privately.
>>   - with no caveats.
>>   BLOCK TRACKERS
>>   - except they aren't actually blocked, just isolated.  right?
>>   DEFEND AGAINST SURVEILLANCE
>>   - I suspect tor is a better defense than using a vpn but still...
>> with no warnings or caveats it seems a bit much.
>>   RESIST FINGERPRINTING
>>   - yay!  "Tor Browser aims to ..."  a reasonable claim.
>>
>> But wait!  There's more!!
>>
>> Click on the 'Download Tor Browser' link & go to
>> https://www.torproject.org/download/
>> Click on the 'Download Tor Browser' link on that page and get sent to
>> "../download/" but that's where I was, so wtf?  Maybe I need
>> javascript enabled??
>>
>> There's also a link for "Verify Tor Browser signature" but no link to
>> the signature file.
>>
>> At least the "Download in another language" link gets me to a page
>> where I can download tbb and the sig.  It doesn't show which version
>> will be downloaded, but it does have working links, so it's infinitely
>> better than the download page.
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>> > Apr 3, 2019, 10:47 AM by grarpamp@xxxxxxxxx:
>> >
>> >>> why adversaries should finance tor project and publicly it if they
>> >>> have
>> >>> a malicious intent?
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Why do adversaries do that to their opponents?
>> >> Because it's a simple and effective diversion operation.
>> >> Nor is it dependant upon whether any "malicious intent".
>> >> Adversaries often fund their opponents to keep them busy and happy
>> >> even if opponent only a few steps tangent behind the race to actually
>> >> being able to kill the adversary. It can work actively...
>> >> "Here's a pile and stream of money to develop some useless
>> >> or thing we want in an RFP / contract / grant / employee",
>> >> or passively... "Hey, those guys seem to be going down useless
>> >> paths, ok here's a bunch of money to keep them happily digging
>> >> in those holes, LOL." Usually delivered by false fronts.
>> >> See also "regulatory capture" type of concept. Also how nice
>> >> salaries and simple weight of self reinforcing mass inertia and
>> >> groupthink over time can keep any one or group settled into the
>> >> same thing, less dynamism, up to even not abandoning and starting
>> >> out elsewhere due to simple risk aversion... "job food friends
>> lifestyle."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Is an entity, product, or network subject to whatever
>> >> to some degree or other? Maybe, maybe not, others decide.
>> >> Yet without talking about and analysing harder questions
>> >> once in a while, especially as generations come and go,
>> >> people might have less sense therein.
>> >>
>> >> If a site looks sexy it must be good, right?
>> >> That's what at least marketers think, and it's perhaps good enough
>> >> for browsing mundane TV news sites. Yet there's no frontpage
>> >> splash disclaimer for others with more sensitive, vulnerable,
>> >> or different use cases.
>> >>
>> >> Nor mention of Tor people hypocritically trying to censor ban
>> >> nodes out of the consensus for, ironically, nothing more than
>> >> excercising their right to free speech. Instead of say punting that
>> >> out to meta analysis projects that users can choose to subscribe
>> >> to as suits their own likes, support, and thinking therein.
>> >>
>> >> To be fair, no different than any other business (say ibm.com)
>> >> or opensource project... finding much suitability disclaimer
>> >> on anyone's pages, surely not without a good number of clicks,
>> >> it's of less interest or natural to cover some potentially
>> >> questionable areas, adversarial weaknesses, etc... it doesn't sell.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Anyhow...
>> >>
>> >> The last actual use case warning or disclaimer on torproject.org
>> >> was removed by or on October 10 2010. Some historical bisects..
>> >>
>> >> Site v1
>> >> first, domain 1998-01-29
>> >> http://web.archive.org/web/19981212031609/http://www.onion-router.net
>> >> <http://web.archive.org/web/19981212031609/http://www.onion-router.net/
>> >
>> >>
>> >> same content actually to "circa" 2006
>> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20061023145713/http://www.onion-router.net
>> >> <http://web.archive.org/web/20061023145713/http://www.onion-router.net/
>> >
>> >>
>> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20130120133213/http://www.onion-router.net
>> >> <http://web.archive.org/web/20130120133213/http://www.onion-router.net/
>> >
>> >> except for the gov diff
>> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20130420093515/http://www.onion-router.net
>> >> <http://web.archive.org/web/20130420093515/http://www.onion-router.net/
>> >
>> >>
>> >> curr
>> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20190228035625/http://www.onion-router.net
>> >> <http://web.archive.org/web/20190228035625/http://www.onion-router.net/
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Site v2
>> >> first, domain 2006-10-17
>> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20071011223019/http://www.torproject.org
>> >> <http://web.archive.org/web/20071011223019/http://www.torproject.org/>
>> >> last
>> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20101003133226/http://www.torproject.org
>> >> <http://web.archive.org/web/20101003133226/http://www.torproject.org/>
>> >>
>> >> Site v3
>> >> first
>> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20101010191937/http://www.torproject.org
>> >> <http://web.archive.org/web/20101010191937/http://www.torproject.org/>
>> >> last
>> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20190326100059/https://www.torproject.org
>> >> <http://web.archive.org/web/20190326100059/https://www.torproject.org/>
>> >>
>> >> Site v4
>> >> first
>> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20190327033924/https://www.torproject.org
>> >> <http://web.archive.org/web/20190327033924/https://www.torproject.org/>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Misc...
>> >>
>> http://web.archive.org/web/20041108031017/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
>> >> <
>> http://web.archive.org/web/20041108031017/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
>> >
>> >>
>> http://web.archive.org/web/20070104070427/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
>> >> <
>> http://web.archive.org/web/20070104070427/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
>> >
>> >>
>> http://web.archive.org/web/20100416102850/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
>> >> <
>> http://web.archive.org/web/20100416102850/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
>> >
>> >>
>> http://web.archive.org/web/20110728115309/https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki
>> >> <
>> http://web.archive.org/web/20110728115309/https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> what you said
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> It's really all junk lately, just delete it.
>> >> --
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