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Re: [tor-talk] tor project website change
On 4/5/19, Lee wrote:
> On 4/5/19, Kevin Simper wrote:
>> You should submit a patch, that would be a great way to move the
>> conversation forward 😄
>
> If I thought they'd add some warnings, sure, but I suspect that adding
> anything that would make the tor browser look less than perfectly safe
> isn't going to happen.
>
> For the download page:
> line 132 - remove this bit
> <div class="pull-right">
> <a class="btn btn-outline-light pull-right" href="../download/">
> Download Tor Browser<span class="oi oi-arrow-bottom-png
> ml-2 p-1"></span>
> </a>
> </div>
> You're already on https://www.torproject.org/download/
> Having a link to the page you're already on is confusing at best.
Both of the "Download Tor Browser" links still point to
https://www.torproject.org/download/
Would someone please either get rid of those links or change them to
https://www.torproject.org/download/languages/
Thanks,
Lee
>
> line 333 - remove this bit, over-promising & linking to the page
> you're already on
> <div class="row">
> <div class="col-12 d-flex justify-content-right">
> <div class="container pt-5 justify-content-right">
> <div class="offset-lx-2 offset-sm-4 mt-5">
> <h2 class="text-white text-bold">Download Tor Browser</h2>
> <p class="text-white">Download Tor Browser to experience
> real private browsing without tracking, surveillance, or
> censorship.</p>
>
> <a class="btn text-primary bg-white btn-light pull-right
> mt-2" href="../download/">
> Download Tor Browser<span class="oi
> oi-arrow-bottom-png-purple ml-2 p-1" title="icon arrow-bottom"
> aria-hidden="true"></span>
> </a>
> </div>
> </div>
> </div>
>
>
> I don't remember where this quote came from, but it was from a
> discussion on web page design:
>
> Iconography is counter intuitive to the literate.
>
> Underneath the graphics that I thought were just graphics - eg:
> <a class="downloadLink"
> href="https://www.torproject.org/dist/torbrowser/8.0.8/torbrowser-install-win64-8.0.8_en-US.exe";>
> <i class="fab fa-windows-png text-light"></i>
> </a>
>
> add the link text for the program & signature
> <a
> href="https://www.torproject.org/dist/torbrowser/8.0.8/torbrowser-install-win64-8.0.8_en-US.exe";>torbrowser-install-win64-8.0.8_en-US.exe</a><br>
> <a
> href=https://www.torproject.org/dist/torbrowser/8.0.8/torbrowser-install-win64-8.0.8_en-US.exe.asc";>sig</a>
>
> And move the
> Verify Tor Browser signature
> link to immediately after.
>
> Lee
>
>
>
>> -Kevin
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 1:34 PM Lee <ler762@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/5/19, Kevin Simper <kevin.simper@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> > I think the website is good,
>>>
>>> If they'd fix the download link on
>>> https://www.torproject.org/download/ it would be a lot better.
>>>
>>> > I felt before that it left out newcomers that
>>> > didn't know what torbrowser was already, so much was going on that it
>>> would
>>> > confuse people that just have heard others mention tor browser and
>>> > want
>>> to
>>> > check it out.
>>>
>>> It seems to me that newcomers are the ones that most need warnings
>>> instead of a blanket
>>> Protect yourself against tracking, surveillance, and censorship.
>>>
>>> but I don't see anything there about tbb not defaulting to a safer
>>> config
>>> https://2019.www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en#TBBJavaScriptEnabled
>>>
>>> and is this still be an open problem?
>>>
>>> https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/4x3qnj/how-the-nsa-or-anyone-else-can-crack-tors-anonymity
>>>
>>> But tor needs 'covering traffic' and .. what? They don't want to
>>> scare people away?
>>>
>>> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/07/dear-nsa-privacy-fundamental-right-not-reasonable-suspicion
>>>
>>> > I think there is still space for more nerdy pages and I think anyone
>>> > is
>>> > allowed to create such a page if they want +1
>>> >
>>> > The only thing I am missing is some call to actions for different
>>> > parts
>>> of
>>> > the website when you have done scrolling to the bottom of the page 😄
>>>
>>> I'm missing a link for downloading tor.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Lee
>>>
>>> >
>>> > -Kevin
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 4:17 PM Lee <ler762@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On 4/3/19, blacklight447@xxxxxxxxxxxx <blacklight447@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>> >> > Pretty sure this guy is just trolling and baiting at this point
>>> >>
>>> >> It looks more like frustration to me
>>> >> >> The last actual use case warning or disclaimer on torproject.org
>>> >> >> was removed by or on October 10 2010.
>>> >>
>>> >> Starting at https://www.torproject.org/
>>> >> Browse Privately.
>>> >> - with no caveats.
>>> >> BLOCK TRACKERS
>>> >> - except they aren't actually blocked, just isolated. right?
>>> >> DEFEND AGAINST SURVEILLANCE
>>> >> - I suspect tor is a better defense than using a vpn but still...
>>> >> with no warnings or caveats it seems a bit much.
>>> >> RESIST FINGERPRINTING
>>> >> - yay! "Tor Browser aims to ..." a reasonable claim.
>>> >>
>>> >> But wait! There's more!!
>>> >>
>>> >> Click on the 'Download Tor Browser' link & go to
>>> >> https://www.torproject.org/download/
>>> >> Click on the 'Download Tor Browser' link on that page and get sent to
>>> >> "../download/" but that's where I was, so wtf? Maybe I need
>>> >> javascript enabled??
>>> >>
>>> >> There's also a link for "Verify Tor Browser signature" but no link to
>>> >> the signature file.
>>> >>
>>> >> At least the "Download in another language" link gets me to a page
>>> >> where I can download tbb and the sig. It doesn't show which version
>>> >> will be downloaded, but it does have working links, so it's
>>> >> infinitely
>>> >> better than the download page.
>>> >>
>>> >> Lee
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> > Apr 3, 2019, 10:47 AM by grarpamp@xxxxxxxxx:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>> why adversaries should finance tor project and publicly it if
>>> >> >>> they
>>> >> >>> have
>>> >> >>> a malicious intent?
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Why do adversaries do that to their opponents?
>>> >> >> Because it's a simple and effective diversion operation.
>>> >> >> Nor is it dependant upon whether any "malicious intent".
>>> >> >> Adversaries often fund their opponents to keep them busy and happy
>>> >> >> even if opponent only a few steps tangent behind the race to
>>> >> >> actually
>>> >> >> being able to kill the adversary. It can work actively...
>>> >> >> "Here's a pile and stream of money to develop some useless
>>> >> >> or thing we want in an RFP / contract / grant / employee",
>>> >> >> or passively... "Hey, those guys seem to be going down useless
>>> >> >> paths, ok here's a bunch of money to keep them happily digging
>>> >> >> in those holes, LOL." Usually delivered by false fronts.
>>> >> >> See also "regulatory capture" type of concept. Also how nice
>>> >> >> salaries and simple weight of self reinforcing mass inertia and
>>> >> >> groupthink over time can keep any one or group settled into the
>>> >> >> same thing, less dynamism, up to even not abandoning and starting
>>> >> >> out elsewhere due to simple risk aversion... "job food friends
>>> >> lifestyle."
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Is an entity, product, or network subject to whatever
>>> >> >> to some degree or other? Maybe, maybe not, others decide.
>>> >> >> Yet without talking about and analysing harder questions
>>> >> >> once in a while, especially as generations come and go,
>>> >> >> people might have less sense therein.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> If a site looks sexy it must be good, right?
>>> >> >> That's what at least marketers think, and it's perhaps good enough
>>> >> >> for browsing mundane TV news sites. Yet there's no frontpage
>>> >> >> splash disclaimer for others with more sensitive, vulnerable,
>>> >> >> or different use cases.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Nor mention of Tor people hypocritically trying to censor ban
>>> >> >> nodes out of the consensus for, ironically, nothing more than
>>> >> >> excercising their right to free speech. Instead of say punting
>>> >> >> that
>>> >> >> out to meta analysis projects that users can choose to subscribe
>>> >> >> to as suits their own likes, support, and thinking therein.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> To be fair, no different than any other business (say ibm.com)
>>> >> >> or opensource project... finding much suitability disclaimer
>>> >> >> on anyone's pages, surely not without a good number of clicks,
>>> >> >> it's of less interest or natural to cover some potentially
>>> >> >> questionable areas, adversarial weaknesses, etc... it doesn't
>>> >> >> sell.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Anyhow...
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> The last actual use case warning or disclaimer on torproject.org
>>> >> >> was removed by or on October 10 2010. Some historical bisects..
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Site v1
>>> >> >> first, domain 1998-01-29
>>> >> >>
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/19981212031609/http://www.onion-router.net
>>> >> >> <
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/19981212031609/http://www.onion-router.net/
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> same content actually to "circa" 2006
>>> >> >>
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20061023145713/http://www.onion-router.net
>>> >> >> <
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20061023145713/http://www.onion-router.net/
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20130120133213/http://www.onion-router.net
>>> >> >> <
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20130120133213/http://www.onion-router.net/
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> except for the gov diff
>>> >> >>
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20130420093515/http://www.onion-router.net
>>> >> >> <
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20130420093515/http://www.onion-router.net/
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> curr
>>> >> >>
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20190228035625/http://www.onion-router.net
>>> >> >> <
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20190228035625/http://www.onion-router.net/
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Site v2
>>> >> >> first, domain 2006-10-17
>>> >> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20071011223019/http://www.torproject.org
>>> >> >> <
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20071011223019/http://www.torproject.org/>
>>> >> >> last
>>> >> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20101003133226/http://www.torproject.org
>>> >> >> <
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20101003133226/http://www.torproject.org/>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Site v3
>>> >> >> first
>>> >> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20101010191937/http://www.torproject.org
>>> >> >> <
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20101010191937/http://www.torproject.org/>
>>> >> >> last
>>> >> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20190326100059/https://www.torproject.org
>>> >> >> <
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20190326100059/https://www.torproject.org/>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Site v4
>>> >> >> first
>>> >> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20190327033924/https://www.torproject.org
>>> >> >> <
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20190327033924/https://www.torproject.org/>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Misc...
>>> >> >>
>>> >>
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20041108031017/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
>>> >> >> <
>>> >>
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20041108031017/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >>
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20070104070427/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
>>> >> >> <
>>> >>
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20070104070427/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >>
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20100416102850/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
>>> >> >> <
>>> >>
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20100416102850/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >>
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20110728115309/https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki
>>> >> >> <
>>> >>
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20110728115309/https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>> what you said
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> It's really all junk lately, just delete it.
>>> >> >> --
>>> >> >> tor-talk mailing list - > tor-talk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >> >> <mailto:tor-talk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> >> >> To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
>>> >> >> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
>>> >> >> <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >> > To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
>>> >> > https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
>>> >> >
>>> >> --
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>>> >>
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>>> >
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>
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