Re: Stealth (was: Basic strategies for winning almost every map)

[Matthias Grimm <matthias.grimm@xxxxxxxxxx>]

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 15:59:20 +0000
Jens Granseuer <jensgr@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> What does "hidden" mean exactly? Not visible is not enough. What does
> it look like when shading the map for a moving unit? Just not displaying
> the unit image may result in a suspicious (to say the least) empty hex
> in the middle of your field of movement, also shading occupied hexes
> would mean an awful lot of special cases, though...
> 
> > Some units have antistealth sensors.  Antistealth sensors have a detection 
> > range.  Any opposing stealth unit within the detection range is revealed 
> > to the force controlling the antistealth unit.  [Ed. ASW helicopters would 
> > be great counter to stealth submarines.  AWACS planes and/or radar tanks 
> > could counter stealth bombers.  Also, I think antistealth units should be 
> > pretty weak offensively/defensively, lest we create some sort of super 
> > unit.]
> 
> This kind of differentiation would call for multiple types of stealth. I
> don't think that kind of complexity is necessary. While stealth bombers
> may be harder to detect with radar, they are certainly not invisible in
> the same way subs are.
> 
> > When a unit without antistealth sensors attempts to move into a hex with a 
> > hidden stealth unit, the moving unit remains in the previous hex and the 
> > stealth unit is revealed to force controlling the moving unit.  The moving 
> > unit may now attack the stealth unit as normal.
> 
> What if the detecting unit would rather have chosen a different path and
> ignored the sub? What happens when a unit without stealth detection tries
> to enter the hex?

I discussed this issue recently with a friend and compared our results with 
Battle Ise. I think we should divide the issue in two topics:
1. Submarines
2. Stealth units and RADAR

1. Per definition dived submarines are not visible to the opponent. Because
a hex field can only be ocupied by one single unit, an opponents unit can't
move to the hex field where the dived submarine. The result is that this
hex field must be shaded in the map of possible moves. This is excact how
Battle Isle handles this. But this behaviour has a big disadvantage: The
opponent only have to click on every own ship to scan for submarines because
hex fields where he can't move to, must contain a submarine.

I would recommend the following behaviour:
The hex field containing a submarine would be handled as every other field the
opponent's ship can move to (no shading in movement map). When the ship should
move to the submarine's field, the submarine became visible and the ship stopped
just a hex before. In this case the opponent has discovered the submarine by
chance.

To increase the chance to find a submarine I would make it visible too if the ship is
placed in direct neibourhood of the submarine (one of the six surrounding hex
fields). Higher range sonar would require a RADAR model which is not implemented
yet.

The submarine itself should have medium movement range, torpedos with range 2
and power located in the upper range of weapon power but with the handicap not
to be able to move and fight in one turn (like artillery).

2. CF has no RADAR model yet and the following description is only usefull if CF
will get something like that. We don't have to discuss the word 'Stealth' if we can't
hide any unit in the game.

I would define 'stealth' as a property of every vehicle that defines how good this
unit could be seen by the opponent. We have optical sensors (our eyes) that can
see every unit if it is in sight (only between adjacent fields). If the distance is greater
technical tool like RADAR came into action. RADAR is able to detect forreign units
over long distances. A unit with RADAR capabilities must have an intelligence factor
that defines how far it's RADAR will reach and how strong the beam will be.

On the other side each unit has a stealth property which defines how good it is
protected against RADAR. A RADAR beam will become the weaker the biger the
distance is. With other words the inteligence factor will decrease with each field
distance. If the beam hits an forreign unit the resulting inteligence factor will be
compared with the stealth factor and the result decides if the unit is visible or not.

This is only a very rough model and many details have to be optimized before it
become usefull, but If CF should become a RADAR model (which I would support)
this basic model would be a good start.

  Best Regards
    Matthias