Re: gEDA-user: 20050329 install problem

[Dan McMahill <dan@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> >> Silly (probably) Q:  Is there an html build something step by step
> >> tutorial buried in this someplace that would give a rank beginner
> >> at EDA a helping hand?  I can read chip docs, and wirewrap fairly
> >> complex stuff which worked when I got done but that was 20 years
> >> back down in the pile of old calendars too, so I need a helping
> >> hand at 'larnin the lingo'.  Is there such a thing as a good
> >> starter book available at Borders or such that covers enough of
> >> this to be usefull?
> >
> >To my knowledge, there is none.  I am working on some stuff, but
> > going is slow because I have other priorities right now.
> :)
> 
> > Attention  professors:  the world needs a textbook about how to use 
> > EDA tools in a modern design flow!
> 
> The above I think, needs to be a headline in 96pt type.
> 
> > As for "The Art of Electronics", it is a 
> > wonderful book, but it's about circuits; it doesn't really talk
> > about EDA-based design flows.

I think its a tough thing to give any sort of decent coverage in 
a book.  One issue is there is a lot of vendor specific terminology.
"pattern" vs "footprint" vs "layout view" for example refering to
the physical view of a component.  Also the type of EDA flow which
is desired or even reasonable varies _dramatically_ with the 
project at at hand.  I'm not even talking about the broad class of
project like board design vs ic design, but rather the gory
details of the particular project.

For example, I have designed some fairly large and complex RF boards
and the only simulation tools involved were some frequency domain
simulators for helping to tweak some filter values once parasitics
(hand extracted) were taken into account.  The EDA flow I had available
only took schematics through layout.  There was no other simulation
capability and quite frankly I don't think it would have been worth
it.  The changes I had to make to those designs were to address issues
which simply would not have been discovered by simulation even if
the capability were there.  The reality of it is though that with
a design with an ADC, or a PLL on it, is probably more complex than
a general purpose simulator can work with.  Generally speaking I've
had no use for board level simulators, but I've also focused on
boards with a high analog content.

Now, if I were doing a large digital board, I might be more interested 
in having a verilog type simulation which is tied to the board
schematics.  But this is a very different problem needing very different
tools.

Do you care about system modeling tools?  Well, probably not if you're
designing a microphone pre-amp chip.  If you're doing a radio front end,
you probably are.  But even there, do you need a block diagram simulator
or do you need something which works off your real schematics using
a behavioural model for certain blocks?  How about auto place and route
tools with delay driven constraints?  A must for many designs but
worthless in others.

Now I've written about 5x more than I meant, but the point is I
don't know how you approach it unless you make it very focused and
even there it's likely to have some very EDA vendor specific stuff
in it.  This is probably why you have EDA companies generating white
papers on their particular design flow.  

-Dan

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