Re: gEDA-user: gEDA DLL hell

[Karel Kulhavy <clock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 09:12:06AM -0400, Dan McMahill wrote:
> Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> >On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 01:44:16PM +0200, Henrik Karlsson wrote:
> >
> >>Karel Kulhavy skrev:
> >>
> >>>But what should user do when he has an old version of gEDA and needs
> >>>a new one? Erase the disk and reinstall the operating system completely?
> >>
> >>How about 'yum update' or 'apt-get update; apt-get upgrade'? Or use some
> >>other package mangement system.
> >
> >
> >clock@kestrel:~$ yum update
> >bash: yum: command not found
> >clock@kestrel:~$ apt-get update
> >bash: apt-get: command not found
> >clock@kestrel:~$ apt-get upgrade
> >bash: apt-get: command not found
> >
> >Friend has Ubuntu and there are no gEDA packages.
> >
> >These suggestions are irrelevant. The message is: reinstallation
> >procedure doesn't exist and has to be written. Please understand
> >the message and fix the problem.
> >
> 
> well, just do 'make uninstall' in your source tree.  That should be 

Why don't you write "do 'make uninstall' in your source tree" to the webpage?

> supported by all software which uses automake.
> 
> seriously though, what you're asking for goes way beyond just geda and 
> it is silly to thing that geda will solve this problem which exists for 
> essentially all unix software.  The right solution will vary drastically 
> based on the particular environment.  Is this a single user, all 
> software installed locally system, a distributed system where mirroring 
> of software across a WAN is needed, maybe just a small workgroup that 
> shares installed software on a LAN.  Are you trying to stay within some 
> particular software packaging and deployment system?  Whats your system 

That's on you what you define to stay within. Choose it and then
write a guide that works there. Normal people don't mirror their
/usr/local across a WAN. And both Linux and NetBSD I suppose have
/usr/local or /opt.

> policy on paths, does everything use --prefix=/usr/local or do you do 
> --prefix=/opt/package-version and create a link farm in /opt/bin or 
> maybe just add directories to your path, do you need to support having 
> multiple versions installed at the same time? If so, how do you want 
> users to pick the version?  Change of path?  Versioned wrapper scripts?
> 
> The point is there are many many approaches to this problem, each with 
> its advantages and disadvantages.  No one approach is likely to fit 

Then write the procedure so it works on all of them. For example:
"if your system has /usr/local directory, do xxx, otherwise if it
has /opt directory and you can change the $PATH, do yyy, otherwise do
zzz."

> everyones needs.  By using automake and autoconf, geda automatically 
> provides the sort of functionality though in its build system to help it 
> integrated into many of these different packaging systems.

Intergrated? I wouldn't call this "integrated". This is just a mess.
Eagle or Orcad is what I would call integrated.

> 
> Speaking as one who maintains the geda packages for NetBSD's packaging 
> system and as one who has installed multiple versions outside of a 
> formal packaging system, its just not that hard _unless_ you make some 
> bad sysadmin decisions up front.
> 
> If you don't want to use a formal packaging system, I suggest you just 

Write to the webpage please: "If you aren't using formal packaging
system, do xxx..."

> use --prefix=/opt/geda-${version} and put everything into its own 
> directory.  Then you can easily have multiple versions and just pick the 
> right one for your path.
> 
> I'll note, that the links download page a) does not have correct install 
> instructions for many systems (there is no single package system, 
> ldconfig is not universal, etc) and b) has no indication whatsoever of 

ldconfig not universal? Then instead of "run ldconfig" you write
"if there is ldconfig, run ldconfig."

> how to deinstall or install multiple versions.  I'm not trying to pick 
> on links here, but rather to say that I'm not sure I've seen a program 
> which comes with the instructions you seem to be asking for.

I don't care what are the 1000 reasons why gEDA must be unusable for
the user. People who aren't UNIX software packaging specialists want to
use it. Does it surprise you?

If I take Orcad or Eagle, I run eagle.exe and Eagle is installed in
the system. If I want to deinstall, I go into Windows program list,
select deinstall Eagle, and it's deinstalled. The same with Orcad. If
I want to reinstall, I first uninstall and then install. Or the program
says "previous version of Orcad was detected. Should I overwrite it?"

If Eagle or Orcad developers were able to make it, then it's possible to
make it. So don't tell me why it's not possible and please write

* installation manual
* deinstallation manual
* reinstallation manual

to the website.

> 
> Or maybe I've missed the point of your question...

You probably missed the point. The point is: every user needs to
install, reinstall, and uninstall gEDA. And he needs a guide how to do
it. There is currently no guide, so the user doesn't know how to do it,
and is unable to use gEDA!

CL<
> 
> -Dan