Re: gEDA-user: gEDA DLL hell

[Mario Klebsch <mario@xxxxxxxxxx>]

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Hi!

Am 28.10.2005 um 16:34 schrieb Karel Kulhavy:
> That's on you what you define to stay within. Choose it and then
> write a guide that works there. Normal people don't mirror their
> /usr/local across a WAN.

There is no such sing as a normal person.

> And both Linux and NetBSD I suppose have
> /usr/local or /opt.

Wether or not a system does have /usr/local is a decision of the sysop 
who administers the system. You would be right in stating, that most 
admins do choose to have a /usr/local.

> Then write the procedure so it works on all of them. For example:
> "if your system has /usr/local directory, do xxx, otherwise if it
> has /opt directory and you can change the $PATH, do yyy, otherwise do
> zzz."

A sysop is required to think before starting to type. There is no 
universal procedure, that copes with every possible (er even only every 
likely) situation, which works for a typing monkey.

If it would be that easy, there would already be a cript for this job.

> > everyones needs.  By using automake and autoconf, geda automatically
> > provides the sort of functionality though in its build system to help 
> > it
> > integrated into many of these different packaging systems.
>
> Intergrated? I wouldn't call this "integrated". This is just a mess.
> Eagle or Orcad is what I would call integrated.

You are right, there is a lot of mess and I would be happy, if the open 
source community would finally face these problems. This problem is NOT 
specific to geda and even if the geda people would be willing to solve 
it, they could not, since various other packages are involved.

> > I'll note, that the links download page a) does not have correct 
> > install
> > instructions for many systems (there is no single package system,
> > ldconfig is not universal, etc) and b) has no indication whatsoever of
>
> ldconfig not universal? Then instead of "run ldconfig" you write
> "if there is ldconfig, run ldconfig."

Using ldconfig is going the windows way to solve this problem. ince a 
lot of people use UNIX because they do not like the windows way and 
they think, they deserve better, why do you expect this niusance being 
commonly accepted?

Wether or not one needs to run ldconfic depends on a decision taken by 
the admin of your system. Everybody, who installs software on a UNIX 
system, should know, what HIS sysop has decoded for his system. No web 
page in the world can know, what decisions your sysop has taken.

> > how to deinstall or install multiple versions.  I'm not trying to pick
> > on links here, but rather to say that I'm not sure I've seen a program
> > which comes with the instructions you seem to be asking for.
>
> I don't care what are the 1000 reasons why gEDA must be unusable for
> the user. People who aren't UNIX software packaging specialists want to
> use it. Does it surprise you?

It requires at least some minimal skills to administer a UNIX system. 
This is the reason, why administration is an explicit role.

BTW. in contrats to all marketing bubbling, it also requires immense 
skills to administer windows systems.

> If I take Orcad or Eagle, I run eagle.exe and Eagle is installed in
> the system. If I want to deinstall, I go into Windows program list,
> select deinstall Eagle, and it's deinstalled. The same with Orcad.

If you are satisfied with eagle or orcad, why don't you simplyuse one 
of these programs?

>  If
> I want to reinstall, I first uninstall and then install. Or the program
> says "previous version of Orcad was detected. Should I overwrite it?"
>
> If Eagle or Orcad developers were able to make it, then it's possible 
> to
> make it. So don't tell me why it's not possible and please write

Eagle and orcad programmers were facing a different problem: They have 
written software for the PC, a personal computer. UNIX systems in 
contrast are not associated to a single person, so they are not 
personal computers but multi user systems. This requieres very 
different system administration approaches.

Whey you say the problem is solvable, you must add, it is solvable for 
personal systems.

It also is solvable for multi user systems, but in contrast to personal 
systems, where the solution is the setup program, on multi user systems 
the solution is the administrator.

The administrator knows his users, so he is the one to decide how to 
deal with this problem, He has to choose a strategy suited for his 
users and he has to follow it.

So, ask your administrator, he will have the answers for you.

> > Or maybe I've missed the point of your question...
>
> You probably missed the point. The point is: every user needs to
> install, reinstall, and uninstall gEDA.

You missed the point: This is the admins job, not the users.

Although the admin usually does this, it often is possible to install 
the software without admin privilidges at all.

73, Mario
- -- 
Mario Klebsch                                           mario@xxxxxxxxxx
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