Re: gEDA-user: a pcb level panelizer tool

[Rick Collins <erudite999@xxxxxxxxx>]

At 04:49 PM 9/27/2008, you wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:53:57
> -0400
> Rick Collins <erudite999@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > generate a *new* board file, so now you have two files that have to
> > be kept in step each time you touch the design.  You also have
> to add 
>
> Yes, we use the Unix tool named "make" for that. In my day job,
> everything is
> manual. :-)
>
> > your features to the panel file each time you touch the board
> file.
>
> No. If you have standard PCB dimensions for standard boxes for example,
> you
> never have to touch your panel file. You just have to generate a new one
> with
> one command/click/etc...

But this "one click" is an extra step.  I am a design
engineer.  I run my own company and I am ultimately responsible for
the *entire* project.  In the process of producing the files (note
the plural) that are required to have a PWB built, parts procured and
boards stuffed, there are a large number of "one click"
operations.  If I am panelizing my own boards, then I want my Gerber
files to reflect that without post processing.  Why, because it is
another "one click" that shouldn't be required.  

Why does this extra "one click" need to be outside the
tool?  

BTW, how do you take a one-up board layout and replicate that for a
panel, plus add fiducials in a script?  How does the script know
what the X and Y spacing and count are?  How does the script know
where to put the fiducials?  I expect you have to edit the script or
pass input parameters to it.  Maybe you only have to define these
once, but you still have to run this as an extra step and it is outside
the layout tool and so there are extra files to keep track of. 

Sure this is a "small increment", but there are something like
a dozen output files (not counting the multiple Gerbers) that have to be
generated for a new board (or a revision to an old one).  I don't
want to muddy the waters more than I have to.  I would like to have
just two or three source files, a schematic and a layout and possibly a
build options file (add this part, leave that part off, etc...). 

I am currently using FreePCB and there are a number of external programs
to facilitate generation of the fab drawing, the XYRS file and the
assembly drawing just thinking off the top of my head.  Each one of
these tools requires a separate setup file.  This is what I am
trying to eliminate.  I certainly don't want to add another file to
define my panel when it could easily be included in the layout file.


> > In a production environment
> this is too much manual work and is 
> > likely to result in an expensive mistake at some point. 
> Typically 
>
> I experience it in the other way around! :-)

You find manual work eliminates errors???  That is why automation
reduces the cost of assembly.  It is not only faster, it is more
accurate.  


> > the board layout goes
> through design review.  Then producing the 
> > final design file set should be done with as little as possible
> human 
> > touch to minimize the chance of errors being introduced.
>
> Yup!
>
> > I am looking for layout tools that are well suited for a production
> > environment.  The lack of good panelization tools is one of the
> > shortcomings of FreePCB.  It provides board replication by use
> of the 
> > step and repeat Gerber command, but does not provide for global
> > fiducials.  I have yet to consider PCB fully so I don't know
> how well 
> > the script tool works.  On the surface it would appear to have
> the 
> > above issues.  If the script were integrated into the tool it
> would 
> > solve some of the issues.
>
> AS DJ pointed out, PCB and the tools around it involves the philosophy
> of
> UNIX, and so they will never get merged. At least I hope. We like it as
> it is.
> If you want some fancy panelization tool, just go and buy one of CAD
> software
> out there. You get the same scripts, but with a "beautifull"
> GUI, which hides
> a lot of things. That is what I experience in my day job. The good news
> is
> that there is perl installed on my computer. :-)

Ok, I didn't realize that the philosophy of open source was to exclude
everyone who doesn't think like you.  I'll look elsewhere to see if
I can find open source tools with supporters who are a bit more open
minded. 

Rick


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