Re: gEDA-user: Blind and buried vias?

[Martin Maney <maney@xxxxxxxxx>]

I was going to comment on one point, but once you start writing...

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 06:16:42AM -0600, John Doty wrote:
> More useful and friendly to *what kind* of user? The kind that would  
> prefer spending an hour mousing around to solve a problem once, or 15  
> minutes writing a script to solve it for all time?

I suppose it depends on whether gEDA is only for those who use it for
hours every day and thus find the cost of learning to and configuring
things to work just the way they want them an obvious net win, or if
it's desired for it to be useful to a larger audience.  I'd be an
example of that - although I have rather enjoyed the work I did about a
year ago using gEDA, the fact is that I haven't had occasion to touch
it since those boards got sent off.  Sure, I have other projects in
mind, but they've been stuck on the back burner, and seem likely to
stay there for some time yet.  Too many todos, too little time.

> People want prefabricated heavy symbols in a library, not considering  
> how massive the problem is. Too many variables. What we need is an  
> easier way to customize symbols for a particular project. And perhaps  
> better BOM post-processing support, so the user can say "I want to  
> use footprint xxx and vendor part number yyy for all 100nF X5R  
> capacitors in this project". gattrib is a nice tool for quick "touch  
> up", but not productive when you have hundreds of footprints to change.

+1 about gattrib's shortcomings when there's more than a few items to
tweak.  I would like to add that some of that seems to be a really
weird UI - things behave oddly compared to other GUI tools, IMO.  OTOH,
if there were a rich library of those heavy symbols you dislike,
there'd be a lot less need for tweaking things (at least IME).  But I
have to agree that creating a huge library like that shouldn't be part
of gEDA's mission, especially when manufacturer's so often make this
stuff available...  but in formats gEDA can't use.  Yeah, it's hard.

The database-driven idea sounds wonderful, but my impression is that
it's a hella bike shed - lots of talk about it but little if anything
of general interest gets done...  or maybe everyone's waiting for one
of the personal hacks to be just the color and glossiness they wish
for.  And it still sounds like a lot of setup work for casual or
occasional use.

> The biggest hole in the gEDA documentation concerns the scripting  
> that gschem/gnetlist can do using Scheme. There's no real API  
> documentation here, so few are aware of the latent power here, and  
> even fewer know how to harness it.

+1e6 - not that Scheme is my favorite scripting language, but if there
were a documented API it would be a viable option.

> And many who find "shortcomings" in gEDA don't want a toolkit.

I have very mixed feelings about that, though the above has mostly come
down on one side.  And I'm not sure I'd call it a toolkit - some of the
pieces just don't work together very well.  The mess of issues that
arise between gschem and PCB are perhaps the most discussed, but all
the parts I've had occasion to use feel more like a random collection
of tools than a proper toolset - one size Phillips screwdriver, a
couple of flat blades but none really small or really large, a hacksaw
blade but you have to make your own frame for it...  The individual
parts are good quality, but...

> But I'm extremely grateful that gEDA *isn't* a massive time-wasting
> integrated point and click thing designed for sales

So am I, but I don't think that's the only kind of better-integrated
thing that *could* be made, even if the commercial EDA toolmakers don't
have a clue about it.  :-)

> I hope it stays that way.

I hope gEDA can do better, so that I can curse it less next time I
reach that stage!

-- 
[the combination of iPod and iTunes is like]
buying a 21st-century device
to live in the seventies.  -- Wes Phillips



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