Re: [tor-talk] Full integration with bitcoin (suggestion / feature request)

[Nchinda Nchinda <nchinda2@xxxxxxxxx>]

If interested in implementing this, please check out ethereum.org, it's
derived from bitcoin and much more suitable to creating these constrains.
On Apr 30, 2015 5:14 PM, "Aymeric Vitte" <vitteaymeric@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> I did not read this thread completely but keep it in my TODO list.
>
> Your analysis is correct but can be summarized in one sentence: using bt
> over Tor is a non sense because the size of the Tor network is
> completely ridiculous compared to the size of the bt network.
>
> As ridiculous as using bt over a VPN, which the bt VPN trolls don't like
> to hear.
>
> Disabling the DHT and allowing trackers only is at the opposite of any
> privacy protection, because trackers are trivial to monitor and fake,
> it's a little bit more difficult with the DHT, but still easy for
> someone that can crawl it.
>
> I have tried to explain all this in the FAQs here:
> http://torrent-live.org and here: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live,
> and related study, which for once does not focus on trackers and
> monitoring the users, but focuses on the DHT and monitoring/blocking the
> monitors, showing also how easily you can protect using the DHT only,
> assuming that your bt client is willing to (like torrent-live)...
>
> Tor does not handle UDP but you can tunnel UDP through Tor to some SOCKS
> proxies, which, again, is ridiculous but just works.
>
> And, again, a possible solution is the Peersm project (which before
> using the DHT does envision new means for peers/content discovery) or
> something similar, a P2P using the Tor protocol, not the Tor network.
>
> Le 30/04/2015 22:18, Speak Freely a Ãcrit :
> > Hi Akater,
> >
> > Traffic overload is still an issue, yes. This causes problems for
> > everyone. That was my #2, being mean. Sorry for not clarifying that.
> > Good read:
> >
> https://svn.torproject.org/svn/projects/roadmaps/2009-03-11-performance.pdf
> > It's a few years old, but covers a lot and still relevant.
> >
> > But the reason for not using BT over Tor is IMHO more than anything a
> > security/anonymity issue.
> >
> > Let's look at the reason why someone thinks they would want to use BT
> > over Tor.
> > - They believe it will provide them anonymity.
> >
> > What benefit would Tor be to the user if their BT client of choice
> > provided their actual IP address to the tracker and to each peer? The
> > answer is mostly none. (There are certain circumstances where that's not
> > completely true, for example ISPs that do DPI to throttle torrent
> traffic.)
> >
> > Unless your ISP does DPI and throttles you, you will almost certainly
> > always download slower, for several reasons I won't elucidate. This just
> > gives interested parties more time to find you. If your ISP does do DPI,
> > there are better ways around that. Tor is slow.
> >
> > BT uses UDP and TCP. Tor doesn't do UDP, but it does TCP very well.
> > There are ways to block the UDP, but most people would never think/know
> > about that, and many users find that disabling UDP/DHT makes their peer
> > count drop which makes them re-enable it immediately out of fear their
> > download may take a little longer.
> >
> > So, with a BT client that exposes your real IP address to the tracker
> > and peers, and DHT through UDP being sent over clearnet, any concept of
> > privacy/anonymity is broken.
> >
> > Yes, you can disable DHT. You can block UDP connections. You could find
> > a BT client that doesn't expose your real IP address. But then certain
> > mis-steps and limitations within Tor also provide attack vectors for
> > de-anonymizing torrent users.
> > https://hal.inria.fr/file/index/docid/471556/filename/TorBT.pdf
> >
> >
> > ... The reasons I say this is because I know someone who used Tor to
> > download torrents, and his ISP kindly let him know that HBO provided
> > them detailed logs that he downloaded specific episodes of one of their
> > most popular shows. He thought he was being very smart and protecting
> > himself, and was dumbfounded when his ISP contacted him.
> >
> >
> > Matt
> > Speak Freely
> >
>
> --
> Check the 10 M passwords list: http://peersm.com/findmyass
> Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist:
> http://torrent-live.org
> Peersm : http://www.peersm.com
> torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
> node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
> GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms
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