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Re: [tor-talk] Escape NSA just to enter commercial surveillance?

>> George:
>> Moreover, if Facebook, etc, decide to employ hidden services, it is good
>> publicity against the "hidden services are for terrorists and other
>> evil-doers" meme.
> Absolutely this.
> Also Facebook's intention was to give citizens of oppressive regimes a
> simple way to access US controlled propaganda to fuel dissident and
> destabilize the country ala Arab Spring.
> Facebook also sets a cookie and every website with Facebook tracking
> buttons reports the visit with the unique identifier tied to the
> Facebook account. Unless ofc you block javascript, but no human being
> can solve the Cloudflare captchas you get without javascript, so
> disabling javascript is pretty much non-existing.

Yes, often people bypassing censorship and surveillance have legitimate
reasons to access Facebook as a tool for organizing.  For every user
opting for the more privacy-oriented tools, there's probably tens of
thousands who stick with tools like Facebook and Twitter.

That is an unfortunate reality.

1. the dozens of PETs-oriented web 2.0/social networking projects have
gained little or no traction among significant populations.  The reality
is that most people still opt for the mainstream services/applications
despite their weaknesses in regards to privacy, security, anonymity,
etc.  People in our scene should start recognizing that, and not dismiss
those users out-of-hand.

2. It's also very apparent that those services tend to accept direction
in terms of geo-political interests.  It's not just about McDonalds and
McDonnell Douglas, but also about the Facebooks and Googles.

I strongly think our role is about enhancing the privacy associated with
those services on multiple levels, plus about providing a methodology
for users to understand the pluses and minuses, and letting them make
decisions based on their circumstances and needs.  To quote the old Syms
store slogan, "an educated consumer is our best customer."

Keeping both feet in the reality of those users needs to be the starting
point, or you become irrelevant to their circumstances and your warnings
and cries go into the abyss.

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