Re: [tor-talk] Historically speaking, what was the U.S. navy /military

[Paul Syverson <paul.syverson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Mon, Aug 03, 2015 at 10:01:41PM +0300, Cari Machet wrote:
> i understood you worked there i didnt understand that you worked there
> prior to onion routing research

Ah OK. Now your question makes sense to me. I started at NRL in 1989. I
started working on onion routing in 1995.  I've worked on a couple of
areas, but prior to onion routing and anonymous comms, my largest
focus had been epistemic and temporal logics for analyzing
authentication and security protocols, which was closest to my
academic background---primarily logic and philosophy of logic.

> 
> thanks for your time in answering my question

Glad I could help.
-Paul

> 
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 7:17 PM, Mirimir <mirimir@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> > On 08/03/2015 10:02 AM, Paul Syverson wrote:
> > > Hi Cari,
> > >
> > > On Mon, Aug 03, 2015 at 06:38:07PM +0300, Cari Machet wrote:
> > >> dear paul - specifically how did YOU know how to / or that you could get
> > >> funding from the navy... specifically the navy that is... not just the
> > >> general US gov
> > >
> > > I'm confused. I work at the U.S. Naval Research Laboratory. The Navy
> > > is a standard place for me to apply to with any funding proposal.
> > > Perhaps this will help
> > > http://www.nrl.navy.mil/doing-business/
> >
> > When did you start working at NRL? Also, what were some of your other
> > early projects?
> >
> > > And, for any proposal, we _don't_ know that we can get funding for it
> > > till a funder agrees.
> > >
> > > HTH,
> > > Paul
> > >
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 5:56 PM, Paul Syverson <
> > paul.syverson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On Mon, Aug 03, 2015 at 03:58:59PM +0800, Virgil Griffith wrote:
> > >>>>>         You did that on purpose, right? You obviously knew the kind
> > of
> > >>>>>         answers your question would generate.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I was hoping for responses like those from Dr. Syverson.  I was not
> > >>>> interested in debating the ethics or justification---simply what the
> > >>>> original funders were looking for / wishing to fund.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> To summarize, the answer I got was: There was no explicit problem to
> > >>>> be solved,
> > >>>
> > >>> There _were_ explicit problems, but nobody approached us with them or
> > >>> with requirements that they said needed a new technology. We came up
> > >>> with some specific problems we thought might be useful to solve and a
> > >>> technology that addressed them. These co-evolved, and I can't say
> > >>> which is the chicken and which is the egg. We also tried to design in
> > >>> an open-ended and modular way in expectation of other applications
> > >>> that we had not yet thought of or evolutions of existing applications.
> > >>> And this was as much or more about anticipation than about the
> > >>> communication environment that existed at the time, which is the
> > >>> reason I mentioned the pizza channel (since I don't think anybody was
> > >>> offering a way to order food over the Web in 1995).
> > >>>
> > >>>> we just had this cool research idea and ONR was cool with
> > >>>> funding us to study it.  However, when we discussed the motivations
> > >>>> with managers we talked about mitigating leaks from things like "The
> > >>>> Pizza Channel" or enabling field-agents to covertly phone home.
> > >>>
> > >>> Well not just managers. In papers, conference presentations, etc.
> > >>> basically to anyone that we were trying to tell about onion routing
> > >>> and what it had the potential to do.
> > >>>
> > >>> aloha,
> > >>> Paul
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -V
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 3:50 PM, Juan <juan.g71@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >>>>> On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 14:41:18 +0800
> > >>>>> Virgil Griffith <i@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> I delegate this thread to tor-opentalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>         By the way, you started this thread here and now you want to
> > >>>>>         move it somewhere else?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>         You did that on purpose, right? You obviously knew the kind
> > of
> > >>>>>         answers your question would generate.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 1:05 PM, Juan <juan.g71@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >>>>>>> On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 07:16:43 +0300
> > >>>>>>> Cari Machet <carimachet@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/qXajND7BQzk?t=27m40s
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> here is on camera explanation of why the navy wants you to use
> > >>>>>>>> tor ... if YOU dont it wont work
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>         Bingo.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>         If only the criminals from the americunt military and other
> > >>>>>>>         branches of government used some kind of 'secret' network,
> > >>>>>>> it wouldn't be secret at all. So they (have to) use other users as
> > >>>>>>>         cover. Sick - like everything the US government does.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> syverson - the way it is portrayed here - worked at the naval lab
> > >>>>>>>> and developed the idea there
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> --
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> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Cari Machet
> > >> NYC 646-436-7795
> > >> carimachet@xxxxxxxxx
> > >> AIM carismachet
> > >> Syria +963-099 277 3243
> > >> Amman +962 077 636 9407
> > >> Berlin +49 152 11779219
> > >> Reykjavik +354 894 8650
> > >> Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
> > >>
> > >> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
> > >>
> > >> Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cari Machet
> NYC 646-436-7795
> carimachet@xxxxxxxxx
> AIM carismachet
> Syria +963-099 277 3243
> Amman +962 077 636 9407
> Berlin +49 152 11779219
> Reykjavik +354 894 8650
> Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
> 
> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
> 
> Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
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