Re: [tor-talk] Historically speaking, what was the U.S. navy /military

[Cari Machet <carimachet@xxxxxxxxx>]

you dont have a wikipedia page so... thanks much...

philosophy of logic huh... so that means you would probably comprehend why
i would be desirous of exhaustive research regarding `evolution`... as you
state below  ...and more, if we follow logic, why inaction is unethical of
the mindful

> > >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 5:56 PM, Paul Syverson <
> > paul.syverson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >> wrote:

> We also tried to design in an open-ended and modular way in
> expectation of other applications that we had not yet thought of or
> evolutions of existing applications. And this was as much or more
> about anticipation than about the communication environment that
> existed at the time, ...
On Aug 3, 2015 10:17 PM, "Paul Syverson" <paul.syverson@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 03, 2015 at 10:01:41PM +0300, Cari Machet wrote:
> > i understood you worked there i didnt understand that you worked there
> > prior to onion routing research
>
> Ah OK. Now your question makes sense to me. I started at NRL in 1989. I
> started working on onion routing in 1995.  I've worked on a couple of
> areas, but prior to onion routing and anonymous comms, my largest
> focus had been epistemic and temporal logics for analyzing
> authentication and security protocols, which was closest to my
> academic background---primarily logic and philosophy of logic.
>
> >
> > thanks for your time in answering my question
>
> Glad I could help.
> -Paul
>
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 7:17 PM, Mirimir <mirimir@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > > On 08/03/2015 10:02 AM, Paul Syverson wrote:
> > > > Hi Cari,
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Aug 03, 2015 at 06:38:07PM +0300, Cari Machet wrote:
> > > >> dear paul - specifically how did YOU know how to / or that you
> could get
> > > >> funding from the navy... specifically the navy that is... not just
> the
> > > >> general US gov
> > > >
> > > > I'm confused. I work at the U.S. Naval Research Laboratory. The Navy
> > > > is a standard place for me to apply to with any funding proposal.
> > > > Perhaps this will help
> > > > http://www.nrl.navy.mil/doing-business/
> > >
> > > When did you start working at NRL? Also, what were some of your other
> > > early projects?
> > >
> > > > And, for any proposal, we _don't_ know that we can get funding for it
> > > > till a funder agrees.
> > > >
> > > > HTH,
> > > > Paul
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 5:56 PM, Paul Syverson <
> > > paul.syverson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> On Mon, Aug 03, 2015 at 03:58:59PM +0800, Virgil Griffith wrote:
> > > >>>>>         You did that on purpose, right? You obviously knew the
> kind
> > > of
> > > >>>>>         answers your question would generate.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I was hoping for responses like those from Dr. Syverson.  I was
> not
> > > >>>> interested in debating the ethics or justification---simply what
> the
> > > >>>> original funders were looking for / wishing to fund.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> To summarize, the answer I got was: There was no explicit problem
> to
> > > >>>> be solved,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> There _were_ explicit problems, but nobody approached us with them
> or
> > > >>> with requirements that they said needed a new technology. We came
> up
> > > >>> with some specific problems we thought might be useful to solve
> and a
> > > >>> technology that addressed them. These co-evolved, and I can't say
> > > >>> which is the chicken and which is the egg. We also tried to design
> in
> > > >>> an open-ended and modular way in expectation of other applications
> > > >>> that we had not yet thought of or evolutions of existing
> applications.
> > > >>> And this was as much or more about anticipation than about the
> > > >>> communication environment that existed at the time, which is the
> > > >>> reason I mentioned the pizza channel (since I don't think anybody
> was
> > > >>> offering a way to order food over the Web in 1995).
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> we just had this cool research idea and ONR was cool with
> > > >>>> funding us to study it.  However, when we discussed the
> motivations
> > > >>>> with managers we talked about mitigating leaks from things like
> "The
> > > >>>> Pizza Channel" or enabling field-agents to covertly phone home.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Well not just managers. In papers, conference presentations, etc.
> > > >>> basically to anyone that we were trying to tell about onion routing
> > > >>> and what it had the potential to do.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> aloha,
> > > >>> Paul
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> -V
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 3:50 PM, Juan <juan.g71@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >>>>> On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 14:41:18 +0800
> > > >>>>> Virgil Griffith <i@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> I delegate this thread to tor-opentalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>         By the way, you started this thread here and now you
> want to
> > > >>>>>         move it somewhere else?
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>         You did that on purpose, right? You obviously knew the
> kind
> > > of
> > > >>>>>         answers your question would generate.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 1:05 PM, Juan <juan.g71@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>> On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 07:16:43 +0300
> > > >>>>>>> Cari Machet <carimachet@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/qXajND7BQzk?t=27m40s
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> here is on camera explanation of why the navy wants you to use
> > > >>>>>>>> tor ... if YOU dont it wont work
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>         Bingo.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>         If only the criminals from the americunt military and
> other
> > > >>>>>>>         branches of government used some kind of 'secret'
> network,
> > > >>>>>>> it wouldn't be secret at all. So they (have to) use other
> users as
> > > >>>>>>>         cover. Sick - like everything the US government does.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> syverson - the way it is portrayed here - worked at the naval
> lab
> > > >>>>>>>> and developed the idea there
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> --
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> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Cari Machet
> > > >> NYC 646-436-7795
> > > >> carimachet@xxxxxxxxx
> > > >> AIM carismachet
> > > >> Syria +963-099 277 3243
> > > >> Amman +962 077 636 9407
> > > >> Berlin +49 152 11779219
> > > >> Reykjavik +354 894 8650
> > > >> Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
> > > >>
> > > >> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
> > > >>
> > > >> Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
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> > > >> permission is strictly prohibited.
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cari Machet
> > NYC 646-436-7795
> > carimachet@xxxxxxxxx
> > AIM carismachet
> > Syria +963-099 277 3243
> > Amman +962 077 636 9407
> > Berlin +49 152 11779219
> > Reykjavik +354 894 8650
> > Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
> >
> > 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
> >
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