Re: [kidsgames] Story based games???

[Steve Baker <sjbaker1@airmail.net>]

Manuel Gutierrez Algaba wrote:

> > ...and yes, I'd use C++ too.  It's the right mix of expressive power
> 
> It's the right mix between pointer nightmares and perl readability.

Well, readability is mostly a matter of what you are used to - and one
man's "pointer nightmare" is another man's "flexibility and power".

I find C++ more readable than other languages because I've used it
more than other languages.  I find it much easier to read C++ than
Python because I'm used to it and for no other reason.  Doubtless
if I spent all my time reading Python programs, I would find C++
harder.

> > and ability to get low down to the hardware - it's the language for
> 
> Good idea, let's programm DMA channels for implementing a story
> game engine. Or let's optimize for Pentium III, when we have
> to decide if the wolf is near enough to eat the pig in the wood.

Well, you are correct that we don't need to optimise some parts of
the game - but Python users can't exist without libraries written in
a more efficient language like C or C++ that *does* deal with the DMA
channels or whatever.  Once you get good enough at C++ to be able to
write those necessary low level things, using C++ to find out if the
wolf is near enough to the pig is easy and there seems to be no good
reason to invoke a second language.
 
> > experienced pragmatists who actually want to get on and DO SOMETHING.
> 
> Ha,ha, ... funny, C++ is the language of the newbies, those who
> doesn't know Python yet! Everyone who has tasted python can't
> stand C++ anymore.

Well that's just downright insulting.  I've worked a couple of projects
with Python now so I certainly 'know' it - and I'll still use C++ for all
situations EXCEPT those where I need a 'scripting' language at runtime and
an interpreted language is a must.  I'm certainly not a newbie - I've been
programming since 1974 and I've probably used more than 100 different
languages in that time - so given all that experience and all those languages
to choose from, I'm still using C++.  There is a reason for that.

So - you are factually incorrect. I'm certainly not a newbie and C++ is
my preferred language.  I've tasted Python and I can certainly still "stand"
C++.

So, please tone down the rhetoric and stick to the facts.

1) Python has it's place where an interpreter is needed.
2) C++ has it's place where speed is needed.

All else is a matter of opinion and personal taste.

In essence, your view is that Python is great - but you'll resort to
C/C++ when you need the speed that Python can't deliver.

My view is that C++ is great - but I'll resort to Python when I need
an interpreted language.

You see, we agree on the facts - but disagree only on matters of
opinion.

> > There are times when Python is appropriate (when a program needs
> > on-the-fly scripting at runtime for example)
> 
> Python is suitable whenever we don't need heavy CPU , like graphics.

Excuse me?  I do graphics for a living - I write the graphics
code for big military flight simulators.  I can assure you that
you need heavy CPU time for graphics - until graphics look like
movies, there will never be enough CPU time.  Of course there are
some classes of games (2D games perhaps, turn-based stuff where
speed is not an issue) where you DON'T need all that speed ... but
those games are hardly the totality of graphics applications.

I couldn't possibly write games like my Tux-the-Penguin game in Python.

I *could* possibly write the higher level routines for deciding where
characters go and stuff like that in Python - but things like lighting,
collision detection and so on couldn't possibly run on a reasonable
CPU in Python....not without providing Python with some library routines
written in (say) C or C++ to do the drudge work.

> And even in those cases we can wrap the critical parts in C, and
> make them python libraries.

THAT'S THE POINT.

You always end up having to write 'the critical parts' in C or C++.
Once you've gone to all the effort to do that, there is generally
(but not always) little point in dragging in Python to write the
rest.
 
Wall, anyway, this has gone the way of all discussions about languages,
text editors, operating systems or computer brands - and I'm not getting
dragged into a flame war about it.

You have my opinion - I won't post anymore to this thread.

-- 
Steve Baker                  http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
sjbaker1@airmail.net (home)  http://www.woodsoup.org/~sbaker
sjbaker@hti.com      (work)

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