Light Princess, was Re: [kidsgames] Generic adventure game engine

[Terry Hancock <hancock@earthlink.net>]

There appear to be brushfires springing up at the edges 
of this thread, as everyone starts bringing up their
pet peeves.  So I'd like to return to what I thought
was the original issue:

"jm" asked whether a generic engine exists to write
graphic adventure games along the lines of the 
Sierra or LucaArts games.  [ I think he's talking
about the "middle" Sierra games, like King's Quest
V or so -- i.e. after the text line went away, but
before everything resolved into one mouse cursor].

This implies to me, that "jm" is interested in
contributing creative content, in contrast to 
"Steve Baker"'s claim that such creative interest
does not exist.  I think we might be able to
contribute in that area too, though we're going to
need some help, and guidance towards interacting
with the technical side of the problem.

Lots of other people have been involved in the
conversation, and some potential sources for
engines have been proposed, as well as reasons
why it won't work. :)

This suggests to me a classic "chicken-and-egg"
problem -- the creative talent doesn't want to
start without an engine, and the technical talent
doesn't want to start without a story.

Obviously, it would be good to break this deadlock.

Now I am a programmer _and_ an artist, so I tend to
see both sides of this problem.  As a programmer,
I am extremely frustrated at systems that force
linear thinking onto what I perceive as basically
visual problems.  As an artist, I am somewhat
frustrated by the dilemma of which bit of programming
I'm going to have to learn, as well as where to
find the right tools.  As a person who would like
to make money someday at my day job, not to mention
a fairly busy parent, I would like to not spend a 
horrendous amount of time on something like this.

On the other hand, we would like to contribute:

My wife, who has a greater personal interest in seeing
adventure games come to Linux, along with a fair
amount of writing talent, has proposed to me a simple,
fairly low-impact idea -- adapting a "children's classic"
(public domain) to a classic puzzle/game format.  After
a half-hour or so of brainstorming, she settled on
"The Light Princess," by George MacDonald.  This original
story is public domain, so even though this is clearly a
derivative work, there's no copyright entanglements.

I am quite capable of handling game backgrounds for such
a story, and I have some ideas that might make such work
go along a little faster.  I could probably do character
work in a pinch, but I'd rather recruit someone else to
do it.  I do have some ideas -- I know one frustrated
animator, and she knows artists and media people.  We
might even be able to get voice talent, once it gets to
a fairly well-developed stage (but that's a little trickier).

My wife has already got a basic concept for adapting
"The Light Princess," including multiple endings, with
a fairly unique "you pick which is the winning ending"
twist.  She's willing to handle game "room"
layout, and descriptive text and dialog (largely drawn 
from the original), along with the resulting game play
trees.  The result would need something like the LucasArts
"Monkey Island" game engine, in which characters talk to 
other characters by a multiple-choice menu.   There should 
also be "automaton" characters with the ability to respond
in a rule-based way to the player, and other characters.

So, to sum up, here's our bid:

1) Storyline, game tree, dialog -- i.e. all the "creative"
   writing, adapted from a classic story in the public domain.
   One nice thing, this story isn't so well known (unlike
   "Alice in Wonderland"), so many people won't know the
   ending already.  Of course, it will have multiple endings,
   but I think you know what I mean.  It also has some nice
   characters that are fairly well fleshed out.

2) Backgrounds and character art and animation "cels" or
   "sprites" -- that is, the conception and production of
   them.  

And, here's the requirements:

1) A graphic adventure game engine, similar to the Sierra
   or LucasArts engines, in that:

   * it is mouse-based
   * it allows multiple "tools" or "actions" to be selected
   * dialog is in a "multiple choice" mode -- either/both
     pick-verb + pick-subject [+ pick-object]  or
     pick-whole-sentence
   * automatons with timesense (technically, Augmented
     Finite State Machines, AFSMs) with fairly easy
     scripting to drive non-player characters as well
     as time-sensitive environments, "event wait"
     time should be available too

   - doesn't really need scrolling graphics
   - there probably aren't any "arcade sequences," though
     we might be able to find room for them, if someone
     really wants to create them

2) An interactive tool for making the animated sprites 
   needed, that is easy enough for an animator (i.e. not
   a programmer) to use.  Of course, I can provide tech
   support, since I am a programmer, if that makes it an
   easier target.

3) We need some education!  Neither of us are experienced
   game designers.  Rosalyn will need a format to use to
   write both the game structure and the dialog options,
   etc.  I (Terry) will need a guide to what tools I ought
   to be using to get the graphics and animation -- 
   particularly sprites -- done. 


#1 could be acheived by using a "generic adventure game engine"
if one exists, or by collaborating with you talented game
programmers to create one special (perhaps somewhere in-between --
i.e. we create it for this game and keep it flexible enough for
later re-use).  I have heard a variety of different game and
graphics libraries bandied about on this list, but I have to
admit I don't know what most of them are.  We are not qualified
to take the lead on this!

I'm pretty sure I heard someone say that #2 exists, but I don't
know where to find it.  I might be able to attempt a port or
something, if there was a good codebase to start from.  However,
I would probably need a lot of help, and it might take me
forever, if I can't dedicate enough time to it.

#3 Really involves too things: helping us make the decision about
what to study, and helping find the materials to learn about it.
Answering specific questions after we got started would be good,
too, of course.

If it works, we have some more ambitious ideas ("The Light
Princess" will be a fairly small game, in terms of the number
of puzzles, characters, and rooms), but let's stick to square
one.

So, will there be any takers?

-- 
Terry Hancock
hancock@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~hancock/index.html
-
kidsgames@smluc.org  -- To get off this list send "unsubscribe kidsgames"
in the body of a message to majordomo@smluc.org