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[school-discuss] Re: Re: Re: SuSE docs (was: Re: Re: Politeness and maturity)

on Sun, Mar 27, 2005 at 08:55:59AM -0600, Brad Bendily (bendily@xxxxxxxxx) wrote:
> > If you go to http://www.novell.com/documentation , SuSE's reduced to
> > a "category".

> Again, SuSE is one of Novell's products. Just like every other product
> they have.  They have other products that are used and are more
> popular that SuSE, but they're all listed in the "category" section.

And again, I'd suggest they do otherwise.
> > > I've used the www.novell.com/documentation plenty times before and
> > > they're usually almost helpful. At least pointing me in the right
> > > direction with the problem I have. Also, just a note, the support
> > > docs (most of them, at least the ones I looked at) are wiki based,
> > > when you're going through the html view. So if you have a fix or
> > > suggestion you can make it.
> > 
> > Could you post specific URLs?
> So, I just thought about something. 

You mentioned a Wiki.  I can find none based on sensible Google queries,
hosted at either novell.com or a SuSE domain.  Care to share?

> You can download SuSE free of charge from the FTP tree. But with that
> you don't get any documentation, however if you purchase the Boxed
> version you'll get several books which are the documentation. I've
> never purchased SuSE, so i'm not exactly sure what the books consist
> of.
> Still, I looked on the documentation website and you are correct that
> for SuSE all they have is two pdf files. Perhaps they will leave it at
> that, or they may add more docs later.
> Here is an example of the wiki based docs to which I was refering:
> http://www.novell.com/documentation/nld/userguide_kde/data/chap.gnomenew.html

Um.  I don't see anything particularly Wiki about that.

> > benefit:  you're Google-juicing the useful stuff.  
> I don't beleive I've Google-juiced anything. ;)

By creating inbound links to stuff, you are.  That's part of the neat
stuff Google does with what people do naturally online.  Anyway:  I'm
encouraging you to link to useful stuff.  Particularly when mentioning
it on related mailing lists.

> > Not to get 'snickety or anything -- or maybe I do -- but I hate
> > form-based web support.  


> I agree, the web-based forums are terrible and difficult to navigate.
> However, if you're using windows you can use:

Nope.  Not since 1998.

> or if KDE you can use Knode for reading the news forum. These are the
> two programs I use. They make digesting the news forums much easier.

Here again:  what specific newsgroup?  Yes, I use KNode. 
> > > Also, have you looked at the SuSE mailing list? There is another FREE
> > > resource you can use to get your questions answered.
> > >
> > > http://lists.suse.com/
> > 
> > No.  I have hit the IRC support channel.  Despite what I wrote above,
> > lists are something I generally need an incentive to join -- my mail
> > feed is ginormous as it is.  If I knew I was working with SuSE
> > significantly over a period of time, yes, I'd join.
> So, you complain about the one FREE resource and say you want another
> then you complain about the other FREE resource?  sheesh!

What I wanted in the first place was easy-to-find, easy-to-access,
HTML-based documentation.  Such as is provided in copious quantity by
Red Hat, Debian, Mandrake, Gentoo, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, Ubunutoo....   I
really hate beating, hammering, congo-drumming, steamrolling,
drop-kicking, and flogging dead horses, but that point seems to keep
getting missed in these quarters.

Mailing lists are fine.  But they're not (outside accessible forums) a
first line of documentation source for myself, or, in my experience,
many people.
> > SuSE most decidedly *are* being paid, and are paying, to produce
> > docs.

> See my earlier  note about obtaining the Box set.

See my earlier point about trying to provide support for a SuSE
installation at a school, when I don't actually have the distro
installed locally.

Which, to make the broader point (see my earlier point regarding dead
horses, flogging, etc., of), is that SuSE/Novell are doing themselves a
favor by providing [see my earlier point regarding easy-to-find...].

By the way, here's a quivver of miscellaneous points you might find
useful in the case others go missing from time to time.  Take two,
they're cheap.

> I'd have to agree with you. The mailing list pumps out about 200
> messages a day. It's very difficult to keep up with. I just let them
> go to a separate folder then I can browse through it when I want. 

Yes, that is, in fact, a sharp bit.  Also know as, a point.  One of

Peace.  Points.  Whatever.

Karsten M. Self <kmself@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>        http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
   The Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act:
     Feinstein's answer to Enron envy.

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