Re: [seul-edu] Linux in Elementry

[Ben Armstrong <synrg@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca>]

On Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 11:45:59AM -0700, zeruch [Joseph Estevao Arruda] wrote:
> Jim Thomas wrote:
> <deletia>
> > > Both of them have similarities to windows as far as interface so they both
> > > should feel comfortable to users.
> > >
> > > A Question my wife brought up to me was. If all they have in the classroom
> > > is Linux will they be able to work on windows when they get out of school.
> > > Now my natural reaction was, "If they can use linux then windows should be
> > > simple" anyone else got this kind of response when they mentioned it?

No, but it's there in the back of my mind.  I think I serve my children
better by teaching them about computers in a style that celebrates the
diversity and flexibility of the tool instead of assuming an
inflexibility and inability on their part to adapt to any differences
or inconsistencies there may be from one application to the next or one
activity to the next.

> > I get this all the time.  It's not that hard to switch between linux and
> > windows (except that using windows gives me a headache).  It's my firm
> > belief that Joe-user doesn't learn how to use Windows or Linux, he
> > learns how to use applications.  Yet no one ever says "If we teach them
> > to use WordPerfect, will they be able to use Word when they get out of
> > school?"

Well, sort of.  Those applications aren't in a vacuum.  To the extent
that children are not content to simply use one or two applications,
they will interact more and more with the operating system.  And it is
my experience that children are natural explorers who both can and will
exhaust your energy keeping up with them as they explore (and break)
your system in new and interesting ways every day. :)

> <babble>
> 
> This really is not that simple. Yes, the argument that applications are
> more important than the underlying OS (from the users perspective) rings
> quite true - HOWEVER - in the case of MS and Mac, the consistent and
> 'seamless'* integration results in being that all the apps and the OS
> behave as one kind of fluid environment.

I would substitute "fluid" with "regimented".  Jazz music is "fluid".
Marching band music is "regimented".  The former is full of subtle
nuance, unexpected surprises, humour, and diverse pleasures.  The latter
is direct, predictable, obvious, and its pleasures are few and unvaried.
(I don't mean to slight marching band music, if any of you are fans ...
I do enjoy it in the occasional parade myself. :)  But making analogies
in music for computers may seem like stretching it for anyone with a
purely utilitarian view of computers, yet I feel justified, as I'm in
the "computers are fun for their own sake" camp, as I would expect most
children to be as well.

> I am in the minority of folks
> who like obnoxious amounts of variety (most Joe-users could not or want
> to deal with E with GTK and KDE and Motif and other widgets all
> competing for play and looking fairly cluttered.

Children tend more to that end of the spectrum.  Of course, there are
ranges of tolerance or affinity to variety among them, but in general, I
find children to be more flexible with differences, and more inclined to
find differences fun and interesting.  Adults, on the other hand, tend
to fixate more on following established routines.  This helps them
orient themselves in a life that demands them to produce more and more
in less and less time.  Our work lives demand productivity.  Enjoying
diversity in this environment is a luxury.  It is a distraction.

> A lot of this can be flitered via the language used to explain how stuff
> works (or on occasion, doesn't). Most folks get into hardwired patterns
> as they go from the discovery phase of learning something, to refinement

OK, I'm with you so far ...

> (just look at anyone who uses Slackware or Debian ;)** Think of an
> artist when she first learns to use colour -- primary to secondary
> mixing, then tertiary, then combinations as varied (or static) as the
> person wishes - eventually leading to a particular stamp of style that
> becomes harder to 'break' and change as it develops.  The same could be
> said of coding styles and any other activity that follows a logical
> progression of development.

So do we want to encourage this kind of rigidity at an early age or not?

> This is why you get questions like "If we teach them to use WordPerfect,
> will they be able to use Word when they get out of school?" This begs
> the question, are you teaching the app or the skill to navigate an
> interface via logic and understanding of GUIs/language?*** But hey,
> thats the 30,000 ft up question, and most of the stuff we deal with here
> is more low-level grass-roots.

I think a big problem when we are considering whether Linux will "make
it" in the schools has to do with every question being asked and
answered by adults.  Who is asking the kids?  Adults worry quite a bit
too much, I think, fixating on their *own* problems with computers and
then (and perhaps justifiably so, since they'll be the ones responsible
for doing the teaching) projecting these problems onto the children they
are responsible for teaching.

But, IANAT, so maybe this is totally naive and maybe I'll come across as
just shooting off my mouth ignorantly.  Do elementary school kids have a
problem with Linux? Or with using particular wms? Or using a variety of
apps with different widgets (excluding athena widgets, OK? ... I mean
different *well-designed* widgets :)

Not all of my kids are "technically inclined" and yet they seem to all
be reasonably comfortable in front of Linux.  And the child who has the
hardest time with Linux lives with her mom and visits us only every
second weekend, uses Windows at home, and reportedly finds that system
just as difficult and mystifying as Linux.  But on the whole, even she
seems to navigate it fairly well and enjoys it, and learns well in that
environment, even if her style of interacting with the computer is more
cautious and reliant on "hardwired patterns" than her sibs.

Ben
-- 
    nSLUG       http://www.nslug.ns.ca      synrg@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca
    Debian      http://www.debian.org       synrg@debian.org
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