Re: gEDA-user: fritzing

[John Doty <jpd@xxxxxxxxx>]

On May 10, 2009, at 7:54 AM, Chris Smith wrote:

> Stefan Salewski wrote:
>> On Sun, 2009-05-10 at 11:43 +0100, Chris Smith wrote:
>>> Stefan Salewski wrote:
>>>> It's hard for me to imagine an engineer who can not install an  
>>>> OS, when
>>> The issue is not their /ability/ to install, but whether they  
>>> should be
>>> /forced/ to install an OS.
>>
>> I am forced to read and write in english language to participate  
>> to this
>> list ;-)
>>
>> But seriously:
>>
>> Nobody is forced -- but if somebody is interested in FOS he can  
>> install
>> an FOS operating system beside his commercial one.
>
> Why should anyone have to?  In this day and age, with the number and
> maturity of cross-platform GUI development libraries, there are no
> reasonable justifications I can think of for producing an application
> tied to a particular platform.

gEDA has a fairly long history. It's built on what was available 10  
years ago, and on the specific skillset of the developers. That  
resulted in a highly portable and radically flexible system. A lot of  
that flexibility comes from the fact that it plays well with classic  
Unix tools like AWK and make. You can say "I can have those on  
Windows, too" but there always seem to be gotchas on Windows.

>   What is the goal of gEDA?  To produce a
> first-class suite of EDA programs,

Yes. That's easier on a solid foundation. If you want to build on  
quicksand, it's no use whining that there's extra site preparation  
necessary.

> or to further the cause of GNU/Linux?

It's built on a great deal of GNU software, but few involved are  
prejudiced against installation on proprietary systems. For example,  
gEDA works fine on MacOSX. But Apple finally figured out that  
compatible, standards compliant foundations would be good for  
business. The problem isn't free versus proprietary: it's standard  
versus (maliciously) nonstandard.

It says a lot about Microsoft that if you have a collection of  
PowerPoint presentations made with different versions, Keynote is  
more likely to be able to project them all than any version of  
PowerPoint is.

>
> Most people don't care about operating systems, FOS or otherwise; they
> care about getting things done, and sharing their data with whomever
> they choose.  That requires applications which are cross-platform  
> and/or
> use standard, open file formats.  gEDA at least wins the latter.
>
> I attended an Altium roadshow last month and said much the same thing.
> Do you have a Linux client?  No.  Do you use open file formats?  No.
> Why should I use an application that locks my data down such that I
> can't share it with colleagues using different applications or
> platforms?  No answer.

That's the real issue: it's the difficulty of interoperabilty.

>
>>> I find it ironic that the FOSS community is so outspoken on the  
>>> evils of
>>> vendor lock-in, but will happily accept it if it forces people to  
>>> use
>>> FOSS OS's.  In my eyes, forcing people to install Linux to use  
>>> $TOOL is
>>> no less evil that forcing people to install Windows to use MS  
>>> Office.
>>>
>>
>> I think most gEDA users and developers will be happy if someone  
>> makes a
>> fine Windows port. But this is work, and most have other priorities.
>
> I wrote that in response to a couple of posters to this thread who  
> seem
> keen to use gEDA's '*nix only' status as a tool to pry users away from
> Windows.

If you're committed to using a maliciously incompatible system, there  
will be a cost.

>
>>> I am about to start work on a project with another engineer who uses
>>> Windows.  I would dearly love to use gEDA for this project,  
>>> however I
>>> respect his choice of OS and thus we will be forced to use something
>>> like Eagle instead.
>>
>> Why not KiCAD? It IS available for Windows and Linux! And as Joerg  
>> told
>> us it is fine.
>
> My point was that I will have to use something other than gEDA, and  
> the
> more people who have to do likewise, the more potential
> users/contributors the gEDA project loses.

All the Windows fans have to do is to step up and do the work,  
instead of laying the burden on the developers who are mostly *nix  
experts.

>
>> "I like FOS, but only if it looks and behaves identical to my current
>> commercial software." I can understand this desire, I am lazy too.
>
> I'm not sure where you got that from, but it's certainly not my  
> opinion! :)
>
> Chris
> -- 
> Chris Smith <cjs94@xxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
>
>
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John Doty              Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
http://www.noqsi.com/
jpd@xxxxxxxxx




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