Re: gEDA-user: a pcb level panelizer tool

[Levente Kovacs <leventelist@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:53:57 -0400
Rick Collins <erudite999@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> At 11:19 AM 9/26/2008, you wrote:
> >On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:40:03 -0400
> >Rick Collins <erudite999@xxxxxxxxx>
> >wrote:
> >
> > > I have scanned this thread, but other than the first post, I am
> > > not clear on the goal of your efforts.  If you are really just
> > > trying to "panelize" boards into a step and repeat pattern, there
> > > is an easier way to do it.  The RS-247X Gerber format has a step
> > > and repeat command that will allow you to easily indicate your
> > > panel specs.  Layout the board once, and then add the step and
> > > repeat command to indicate the X and Y spacing of the boards.
> > > This does not cover the drill file, but that is easily extended
> > > by repeating the drill instructions with the X and Y values
> > > incremented appropriately.
> > >
> > > Is there a need to generate the entire panel in the layout
> > > program?  With a little effort, the panel could be viewed without
> > > actually duplicating all of the tracks and components.  Then other
> > > items could be added to the panel such as global fiducials.
> >
> >You can add fiducials, positioning holes, project codes, test
> >objects, Cu surrunding areas to the panel PCB. They are mainly used
> >only in mass production, but why not to do it, whet it is only a few
> >line of perl code? ;-)
> 
> I'm not saying that anything should *not* be done.  I am just saying 
> that there is a need for a simpler method (built into the main tool 
> and part of the board file) of duplicating a single design along with 
> fiducials as this is all that is most commonly needed for production 
> work.  It is easy to specify the basics of X/Y board count and

In my day job I am a layout engineer, we are using Zucken's Board Designer,
CR5000. It costs hell lot. It has a panel tool with GUI. One must manually
place all the fiducials, and insert boards to the panel. Ok, you can load a TL
file coming from mechanical engineers with coordinates of the PCBs, and other
symbols. This approach is IMHO the worst you can have, becouse it is not
scriptable,  and so it has lots of manual involvment, which brings lots of
errors in.

I think my approach is slightly better, becouse there is no human involvment.
Once you create a panel file, and fill your cordinate file with the right
values, having standard PCB sizes, you are on your way to success.

> spacing and where fiducials should go.  Using the script is *not* 
> just a few lines of perl code.  You have to run the script to

My script contains 140 lines.

> generate a *new* board file, so now you have two files that have to 
> be kept in step each time you touch the design.  You also have to add 

Yes, we use the Unix tool named "make" for that. In my day job, everything is
manual. :-)

> your features to the panel file each time you touch the board file.

No. If you have standard PCB dimensions for standard boxes for example, you
never have to touch your panel file. You just have to generate a new one with
one command/click/etc...

> In a production environment this is too much manual work and is 
> likely to result in an expensive mistake at some point.  Typically 

I experience it in the other way around! :-)

> the board layout goes through design review.  Then producing the 
> final design file set should be done with as little as possible human 
> touch to minimize the chance of errors being introduced.

Yup!

> I am looking for layout tools that are well suited for a production 
> environment.  The lack of good panelization tools is one of the 
> shortcomings of FreePCB.  It provides board replication by use of the 
> step and repeat Gerber command, but does not provide for global 
> fiducials.  I have yet to consider PCB fully so I don't know how well 
> the script tool works.  On the surface it would appear to have the 
> above issues.  If the script were integrated into the tool it would 
> solve some of the issues.

AS DJ pointed out, PCB and the tools around it involves the philosophy of
UNIX, and so they will never get merged. At least I hope. We like it as it is.
If you want some fancy panelization tool, just go and buy one of CAD software
out there. You get the same scripts, but with a "beautifull" GUI, which hides
a lot of things. That is what I experience in my day job. The good news is
that there is perl installed on my computer. :-)

> Rick
> 
> Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company
> Specializing in DSP and FPGA design      URL http://www.arius.com
> 4 King Ave                               301-682-7772 Voice
> Frederick, MD 21701-3110
> 


-- 
Levente Kovacs
http://logonex.eu



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