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Re: gEDA-user: Power users us normal users, a conflict? [WAS: Re: zview/ngscope]
Hi again:
El 08/04/11 01:30, Peter Clifton escribiÃ:
On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 16:00 -0600, John Doty wrote:
On Apr 7, 2011, at 3:06 PM, RubÃn GÃmez Antolà wrote:
You are right but, what about the users?
I *am* a user.
I'm too.
gEDA is software that caters to the needs of users. But
it's not for passive *consumers* of software. There are plenty of
other tools for them. I sincerely hope that gEDA's power and
productivity are never abridged to make it more palatable to
consumers.
John, I'm not attack the powerful of gEDA, I'm really agree with the
multiple pieces of powerful software that compounds it, and I love too
the posibilty of use makefiles, but...
I tell you a short history: I have a friend, he is really good in
electronics and yes, he uses other comercial apps (and he's testing
Qucs). I try to come him with us, but, stop, if I tell him to need to
learn Bash, Makefiles, Gnuplot and other "esotheric" languages... Âoh,
wait! He only wants to do some electronics work.
Who is wrong? Possibly anyone, then, what about do a easy curve of
learning? Why we have to lost a potentially users which should
contribute in some way to gEDA? For a leak of a good interface* to do in
a easy way the work? I say no. Try to tell him about doing some
makefiles and, definitively all lost, we and they.
Perhaps, we need to invent *some artifact* that can do that the users,
step by step, go the way to convert himself into power users, but, is
necessary not to send them away, do not?
*(Looks that I say interface, not necesary a GUI, perhaps it helps)
Could I remind people to change the subject line when things start
straying from the original subject at hand please.
Is good the new subject? :^)
Whilst I'm here (and no - the subject isn't right for it, is it ;)), I
will just second John's statement that gEDA + Makefiles is a very
powerful thing.
Really, I'm too.
I've just been collating some documentation for my thesis, and have been
enjoying the ability to type a single "make" command, and regenerate my
70+ page PDF schematic after having made minor edits to the colour
scheme file.
Combine this with LyX / LaTeX, and the pdfpages package, and you can do
some very nice things.
I'm doing a project combining R + Latex, and, yes, I'm in the way to use
makefiles, really is powerful, is "easy" to do, but is no easy for
someone that only knows WYSIWG, looks strange, looks difficult. Need to
send them to the hell? No, give them the oportunity of do the way.
I'm all for adding more GUI integration and giving people the option of
using a GUI as well, but gEDA's strength is that the command line flows
work really well too.
I think in the same way.
Russell Dill wrote:
>
> eh, I think spice is always going to be one of those things that takes
> some learning. An IBIS tool would be a much better match for GUI
> integration.
Of course, these people that think that the tools not requiring some
learning don't go too far.
>
> For me, the most non-intuitive things were the naming of the '0' net
> and the use of the tran command in ngspice, past that, everything was
> pretty intuitive. One of the problems is the howto is more of a
> manual:
>
> http://www.geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:csygas
>
> A tutorial with an example design would be of enormous help. A nice
> example might be an unterminated vs terminated transmission line.
>
We have a big a problem with doc, really, we need too much tutorials,
too much manuals, too much examples and, yes, we need books of
electronics written with gEDA and others free tools in mind.
I think that in this list there are many opinions, in some cases,
differents oppinions but, all wants that gEDA become a better tool (a
better tool than be now, and it is so good) and become a attracting tool
for normal and power users, not a tool that scare posible new users.
Best regards.
Salud y RevoluciÃn.
Lobo.
--
Libertad es poder elegir en cualquier momento. Ahora yo elijo GNU/Linux,
para no atar mis manos con las cadenas del soft propietario.
---------
Desde El Ejido, en AlmerÃa, usuario registrado Linux #294013
http://www.counter.li.org
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